Independent Leyton Orient Forum

So the anti-semites actually want to see dead bodies and decapitations before believing the barbarism perpetrated by Hamas.

Wow.

Then what? Israel did these outrages themselves to legitimise further persecution and military actions?

Listen to yourselves. This is exactly what Syria / Russia did against the White Helmets in Syria.

You're the worst faith actor I've ever seen on the MB and that's a real achievement.

The worst is yet to come that is for sure.

This will have to end at some time. How South Africa ended its apartheid, would be a good model for how Israel colud end hers.
Government of Jews and Palestinians together, everyone equal under the constitution.
Its a good idea right?

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:35 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:18 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:52 pm

Thats not true.
Post your source

If it turns out to be true, how will you feel?

To be honest i dont want to look for evidence on this one.

You see yet again this fcuking dumbcluck is in complete denial. A Sky news reporter said he had actually seen the decapitated woman.
What a thoroughly nasty piece of work this particular Jew hater is.

BBC Report from paestinian doctor, " they are not bringing us boddies to the hospitals, they are bringing us Limbs" from collapsed buildings. Adults & Chidren. Are you happy about this & would you call yourself a Muslim or Palestinian Hater ?

Since the year 2000 approx 11,500 Palestinians killed & 2,200 Israelis killed. Nearly 14,000 souls lost. Sadly this is allowed to drag on & on.

Can we have a Poll on this topic ?

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 10:18 pm You're the worst faith actor I've ever seen on the MB and that's a real achievement.

It must be awful to realise that your Palestinian heroes are simply nothing but barbarous baby-killing, women-kidnapping, wanton-murderous, ISIS-worshipping fanatics.

I feel your pain.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:19 pm This will have to end at some time. How South Africa ended its apartheid, would be a good model for how Israel colud end hers.
Government of Jews and Palestinians together, everyone equal under the constitution.
Its a good idea right?

Arab parties were in government in Israel until 10 months ago

Hamas haven’t faced reelection for over 17 years

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:01 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:19 pm This will have to end at some time. How South Africa ended its apartheid, would be a good model for how Israel colud end hers.
Government of Jews and Palestinians together, everyone equal under the constitution.
Its a good idea right?

Arab parties were in government in Israel until 10 months ago

Hamas haven’t faced reelection for over 17 years

Despite what is said to the contrary , in peace times The Palestinians live side by side with Israelis interact normally and do business together. It is the terrorists like Hamas that whip up the tension. Most Palestinians enjoy and want peace as of course do the Israelis. There are many Israeli and Palestinian relationships and marriages. The sooner there is a ceasefire and peace talks the better without further bloodshed.

Honest question for the people who think Israeli lives are more important that Palestinian lives. What is the difference between knowingly dropping bombs on babies, and chopping the heads off of babies? Which humans are behaving rationally and which ones aren't? Which method makes you an animal and which one makes you a sane, rational human being?

The difference is, even rumour of one of these methods happening - being plastered all over every single British newspaper - what does it serve to do. It serves to turn people against the perpetrators of one method - while claiming that the other method is perfectly acceptable - and performed by heroic, rational, decent human beings.

Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak thinks justified self defence, is to kill innocent children with starvation and dehydration. I think i'd rather be decapitated than starve to death, personally.

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:36 am Honest question for the people who think Israeli lives are more important that Palestinian lives. What is the difference between knowingly dropping bombs on babies, and chopping the heads off of babies? Which humans are behaving rationally and which ones aren't? Which method makes you an animal and which one makes you a sane, rational human being?

What you say is true but you are ignoring the bigger picture. You cannot have terrorists invading a Sovereign State like what happened in 9/11.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:40 am

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:36 am Honest question for the people who think Israeli lives are more important that Palestinian lives. What is the difference between knowingly dropping bombs on babies, and chopping the heads off of babies? Which humans are behaving rationally and which ones aren't? Which method makes you an animal and which one makes you a sane, rational human being?

What you say is true but you are ignoring the bigger picture. You cannot have terrorists invading a Sovereign State like what happened in 9/11.

If you are going to talk about the definition of a sovereign state, and why statehood gives people protections, that stateless people do not have - I'm not sure you can talk about ignoring the bigger picture - if the discussion is land and nationhood being stolen by European settlers. A state, in itself, founded partially, on Terrorist acts of resistance by Zionists, in British occupied Palestine.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:40 am

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:36 am Honest question for the people who think Israeli lives are more important that Palestinian lives. What is the difference between knowingly dropping bombs on babies, and chopping the heads off of babies? Which humans are behaving rationally and which ones aren't? Which method makes you an animal and which one makes you a sane, rational human being?

What you say is true but you are ignoring the bigger picture. You cannot have terrorists invading a Sovereign State like what happened in 9/11.

So the terrorists must pay by murdering an entirely different set of people just like in Iraq after 9/11? You're confusing the hell out of me Lenjamin.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:47 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:40 am

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:36 am Honest question for the people who think Israeli lives are more important that Palestinian lives. What is the difference between knowingly dropping bombs on babies, and chopping the heads off of babies? Which humans are behaving rationally and which ones aren't? Which method makes you an animal and which one makes you a sane, rational human being?

What you say is true but you are ignoring the bigger picture. You cannot have terrorists invading a Sovereign State like what happened in 9/11.

So the terrorists must pay by murdering an entirely different set of people just like in Iraq after 9/11? You're confusing the hell out of me Lenjamin.

They have very little choice but to declare war on Hamas , seek them out and in wars , innocents civilians are killed. It is a terrible situation, the Israelis cannot just roll over and accept what has happened. Even so, Hamas will do exactly the same given the opportunity.

No, you're right, there's simply no other option than to kill more women and children and the elderly in retaliation. Them's the breaks.

Petrov788 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:36 am Honest question for the people who think Israeli lives are more important that Palestinian lives. What is the difference between knowingly dropping bombs on babies, and chopping the heads off of babies? Which humans are behaving rationally and which ones aren't? Which method makes you an animal and which one makes you a sane, rational human being?

The difference is, even rumour of one of these methods happening - being plastered all over every single British newspaper - what does it serve to do. It serves to turn people against the perpetrators of one method - while claiming that the other method is perfectly acceptable - and performed by heroic, rational, decent human beings.

Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak thinks justified self defence, is to kill innocent children with starvation and dehydration. I think i'd rather be decapitated than starve to death, personally.

This is a very well thought out post, which over the years has been in my mind.
We live in a polarised world, where everything is black and white, and shades of grey has disappeared. Whenever theres conflict, western governments pick a side, and that side are angels, whereas the other side are 'animals'.
Russia are bad, but Ukraine are good, even though many of them are nazis. Israel are good Palestinians are bad, even though Israel is a fascist apartheid government.
so when Palestinians kill people they are 'animals', but when Israelis kill people they are not
This is all decided on self interest, not right and wrong.
when Israel declared a state in May 1948, America was the first country on earth to recognise that state, 10 mins after the Israeli declaration......just 10 mins.
America treats Israel as a domestic isssue, rather than a foreign country, and America is the real problem, never condemning Israel whatever heinous things it does.
When the rest of the world realises what a rogue state Israel is, then and only then might we have peace in the region.
Incidently, I would like to put on record, im no fan of Hamas, they are a despicable group, that want a strict islamist state, which most Palestinians dont want

‘so when Palestinians kill people they are 'animals', but when Israelis kill people they are not’

The Israelis are defending their Sovereign Democratic Nation. The people who are killing Israelis are Hamas

'Everything is black and white these days '
'america and Israel are to blame for everything'

What do you think the world recognizing Israel as a rogue state would result in? Do you think Israel being cut off by it's western backers would suddenly result in Shia and Sunni states getting along? Or the end of islamic extremism? Or the various proxy wars funded by competing petrostate that have nothing to do with Israel?

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:36 am ‘so when Palestinians kill people they are 'animals', but when Israelis kill people they are not’

The Israelis are defending their Sovereign Democratic Nation. The people who are killing Israelis are Hamas

So if Hamas are doing the killing, why are Palestinian civilians bearing the brunt of the reprisals? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:05 am No, you're right, there's simply no other option than to kill more women and children and the elderly in retaliation. Them's the breaks.

Sure are the breaks if you're still conflating innocent Palestinian citizens with Hamas like some of the utter fannies on this thread.

Then again they're probably still annoyed that peace in Ireland involved negotiating with the IRA rather than just continuing to shoot and bomb the sh*t out of each other.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:05 am No, you're right, there's simply no other option than to kill more women and children and the elderly in retaliation. Them's the breaks.

What should they have done after having 1000 citizens murdered? Peace talks are the long term solution but I dont think you're being realistic.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:41 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:36 am ‘so when Palestinians kill people they are 'animals', but when Israelis kill people they are not’

The Israelis are defending their Sovereign Democratic Nation. The people who are killing Israelis are Hamas

So if Hamas are doing the killing, why are Palestinian civilians bearing the brunt of the reprisals? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Innocent people are always killed in wars. The Germans bombed the UK in WW2 and sent over Rockets and Flying Bombs. The US bombed the hell out of Iraq and the civilians were caught up in it. They were not always targeting military sites, some were indiscriminate. I do not agree with it by any means, just saying how it is.

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:57 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:41 am

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:36 am ‘so when Palestinians kill people they are 'animals', but when Israelis kill people they are not’

The Israelis are defending their Sovereign Democratic Nation. The people who are killing Israelis are Hamas

So if Hamas are doing the killing, why are Palestinian civilians bearing the brunt of the reprisals? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Innocent people are always killed in wars. The Germans bombed the UK in WW2 and sent over Rockets and Flying Bombs. The US bombed the hell out of Iraq and the civilians were caught up in it. They were not always targeting military sites, some were indiscriminate. I do not agree with it by any means, just saying how it is.

No, fair enough. Let's all just shrug and say "that's how it is". There's literally nothing anyone else can do except indiscriminately bomb civilian areas or cut off essential supplies. It's the 4th certainty in this world after birth, death and taxes.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:55 am

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:05 am No, you're right, there's simply no other option than to kill more women and children and the elderly in retaliation. Them's the breaks.

What should they have done after having 1000 citizens murdered? Peace talks are the long term solution but I dont think you're being realistic.

I will admit that I don't know what the precise answer is as to what a proportional response would look like. However, I would suggest it should ideally fall short of brazenly committing further war crimes.