Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:18 am Have you met a single person who has changed their mind? No, me neither.

You must move in a very limited circle of people mate. Even Liz Truss has changed her mind over Brexit (whichever way the wind was blowing at the time..)

Not everyone was 100% committed to one path. There are many shades of grey (cue jokes) between black and white. I know some who have since changed their minds based on the fact that they didn't really know what they were voting for. Now they've seen the utter feck-up created by the Tories they favour remaining. Also, I believe the turnout, if there was a second vote, would be higher and much more likely to be a remain vote.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:28 am

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:18 am Have you met a single person who has changed their mind? No, me neither.

You must move in a very limited circle of people mate. Even Liz Truss has changed her mind over Brexit (whichever way the wind was blowing at the time..)

Not everyone was 100% committed to one path. There are many shades of grey (cue jokes) between black and white. I know some who have since changed their minds based on the fact that they didn't really know what they were voting for. Now they've seen the utter feck-up created by the Tories they favour remaining. Also, I believe the turnout, if there was a second vote, would be higher and much more likely to be a remain vote.

Funny that because I know people who voted to Remain but would now vote to leave because they can see the way we've been treated by the EU. The EU have proven themselves to be nothing but bullies .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:09 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:28 am

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:18 am Have you met a single person who has changed their mind? No, me neither.

You must move in a very limited circle of people mate. Even Liz Truss has changed her mind over Brexit (whichever way the wind was blowing at the time..)

Not everyone was 100% committed to one path. There are many shades of grey (cue jokes) between black and white. I know some who have since changed their minds based on the fact that they didn't really know what they were voting for. Now they've seen the utter feck-up created by the Tories they favour remaining. Also, I believe the turnout, if there was a second vote, would be higher and much more likely to be a remain vote.

Funny that because I know people who voted to Remain but would now vote to leave because they can see the way we've been treated by the EU. The EU have proven themselves to be nothing but bullies .

Yawn, yeah those EU rotters are being really horrible for not agreeing to everything the Tories demand. Given that it's the UK who asked for this divorce, and it's the Tory government who have completely screwed this up beyond all comprehension it's hardly surprising that the EU is now standing back and watching us self-destruct. I wonder if you've considered that your hated EU will probably be regarded as a very beneficent organisation compared to the rapacious US who Boris is currently wooing so embarrassingly. The US will rip us a new one in any trade deal and if you can't see that then I give up.

If we leave the EU, we will be Americas b*tch for certain.

Being controlled by America seems ok to leavers....these same leavers who wanted our 'sovereignty' back.

Notice i said 'If', because Im still not certain we will leave ( fingers crossed)

How are they going to control us exactly?

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:22 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:09 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:28 am

You must move in a very limited circle of people mate. Even Liz Truss has changed her mind over Brexit (whichever way the wind was blowing at the time..)

Not everyone was 100% committed to one path. There are many shades of grey (cue jokes) between black and white. I know some who have since changed their minds based on the fact that they didn't really know what they were voting for. Now they've seen the utter feck-up created by the Tories they favour remaining. Also, I believe the turnout, if there was a second vote, would be higher and much more likely to be a remain vote.

Funny that because I know people who voted to Remain but would now vote to leave because they can see the way we've been treated by the EU. The EU have proven themselves to be nothing but bullies .

Yawn, yeah those EU rotters are being really horrible for not agreeing to everything the Tories demand. Given that it's the UK who asked for this divorce, and it's the Tory government who have completely screwed this up beyond all comprehension it's hardly surprising that the EU is now standing back and watching us self-destruct. I wonder if you've considered that your hated EU will probably be regarded as a very beneficent organisation compared to the rapacious US who Boris is currently wooing so embarrassingly. The US will rip us a new one in any trade deal and if you can't see that then I give up.

A no deal exit doesn’t do anybody favours, the EU included. Posturing going on right now all over the place. All this negotiation in public does f all to resolve the situation, people just dig in for fear of being seen as blinking first. Some private behind the scenes diplomacy is required. Get agreement without anybody losing face.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:58 pm How are they going to control us exactly?

Do you really not know? or are you being your usual provocative self?

first of all they controll us now.....we are americas poodle. They ask us to jump, and we ask " how high"

This tory government cant wait to get into trade deals with the yanks, and those deals are going to be advantageous to the yanks...not us

We are equal partners in the EU.....we have a veto, In a deal with america, there will be no veto

Going to need some more detail on this imaginary trade deal. Why would we need a veto as part of a trade deal?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:09 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:28 am

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:18 am Have you met a single person who has changed their mind? No, me neither.

You must move in a very limited circle of people mate. Even Liz Truss has changed her mind over Brexit (whichever way the wind was blowing at the time..)

Not everyone was 100% committed to one path. There are many shades of grey (cue jokes) between black and white. I know some who have since changed their minds based on the fact that they didn't really know what they were voting for. Now they've seen the utter feck-up created by the Tories they favour remaining. Also, I believe the turnout, if there was a second vote, would be higher and much more likely to be a remain vote.

Funny that because I know people who voted to Remain but would now vote to leave because they can see the way we've been treated by the EU. The EU have proven themselves to be nothing but bullies .

Funny i know a few who voted leave & are now desperate for the uk to remain.
1 an ex Girlfriend from years ago voted leave becuase of the NHS money
Now she knows it wont be coming she wants remain
Why her life will change dramatically over the next 10 years & from being
A strong healthy 20- 53 year old , she will be in a wheelchair for the majority
Of the rest of her days due to spinal disintegration.

She feels so conned .

Everyday on numerous radio stations you hear the stories of those who regret voting to leave

We're f*cked either way, what was that secret trade deal the EU were working on that would have allowed private companies to sue states?

It is laughable that anyone still believes the Brexit lies about it being manna from heaven. Better to stick to this than admit you are stupid and that you were conned I suppose.

Hard Brexit is like jumping out of a plane holding a knotted hankie over your head as a parachute and hoping to land on a bouncy castle........ no thanks!

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:33 pm We're f*cked either way, what was that secret trade deal the EU were working on that would have allowed private companies to sue states?

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership . Yes, that was being negotiated behind closed doors between the EU Commission and the USA. If it wasn't for the Brexit vote the NHS could have been opened up to privatisation .

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:13 pm It is laughable that anyone still believes the Brexit lies about it being manna from heaven. Better to stick to this than admit you are stupid and that you were conned I suppose.

Of course , the Remain side didn't lie about a single thing , did they ? Now what was that about an EU army ?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:35 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:33 pm We're f*cked either way, what was that secret trade deal the EU were working on that would have allowed private companies to sue states?

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership . Yes, that was being negotiated behind closed doors between the EU Commission and the USA. If it wasn't for the Brexit vote the NHS could have been opened up to privatisation .

Are you serious? The exact opposite is the case. The NHS is going to be a bargaining chip for Trump when he negotiates a trade deal with Boris - he's come out and said exactly that. The NHS was never under threat from the EU but it sure as hell is from the US.

Like I said, either way..

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:11 pm Like I said, either way..

Actually no. As members of the European Parliament and the various political and trade bodies we were able to negotiate from a reasonably strong position and in many cases block or heavily change policy. As a "preferred" trade partner of the US we will be locked in to a multi-decade arrangement which is not amendable, negotiable or terminatable post signing. The person responsible for the deal we strike is Boris. If that doesn't send chills up your spine then you don't have one. We have bugger all leverage and a government only too happy to apply the coup de grace to the last remaining parts of the post-war consensus.

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:11 pm Like I said, either way..

Actually no. As members of the European Parliament and the various political and trade bodies we were able to negotiate from a reasonably strong position and in many cases block or heavily change policy. As a "preferred" trade partner of the US we will be locked in to a multi-decade arrangement which is not amendable, negotiable or terminatable post signing. The person responsible for the deal we strike is Boris. If that doesn't send chills up your spine then you don't have one. We have bugger all leverage and a government only too happy to apply the coup de grace to the last remaining parts of the post-war consensus.

You mean like the USA are with the Climate Change Agreements, Sanctions on Iran etc.

To say agreements are not able to be changed or terminated is simply not true. It's more Project Fear.

What are USA going to do if we withdraw from an agreement? Invade? Nuclear Attack? I think not

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:11 pm Like I said, either way..

Actually no. As members of the European Parliament and the various political and trade bodies we were able to negotiate from a reasonably strong position and in many cases block or heavily change policy. As a "preferred" trade partner of the US we will be locked in to a multi-decade arrangement which is not amendable, negotiable or terminatable post signing. The person responsible for the deal we strike is Boris. If that doesn't send chills up your spine then you don't have one. We have bugger all leverage and a government only too happy to apply the coup de grace to the last remaining parts of the post-war consensus.

You mean like the USA are with the Climate Change Agreements, Sanctions on Iran etc.

To say agreements are not able to be changed or terminated is simply not true. It's more Project Fear.

What are USA going to do if we withdraw from an agreement? Invade? Nuclear Attack? I think not

BS - "I love the smell of BS in the morning......"

Not project fear at all. The US will bind us in and if need be take out crippling sanctions against us if we don't play ball. As if we wouldn't play ball anyway. Boris will bend over for Trump all day long - as an ex-public schoolboy this should come naturally. If we engage in a trade deal with the US we will be held to that deal and do I trust this Tory government, led by Boris, to negotiate anything approaching a good deal for the UK? Not in a million years.

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Actually no. As members of the European Parliament and the various political and trade bodies we were able to negotiate from a reasonably strong position and in many cases block or heavily change policy. As a "preferred" trade partner of the US we will be locked in to a multi-decade arrangement which is not amendable, negotiable or terminatable post signing. The person responsible for the deal we strike is Boris. If that doesn't send chills up your spine then you don't have one. We have bugger all leverage and a government only too happy to apply the coup de grace to the last remaining parts of the post-war consensus.

You mean like the USA are with the Climate Change Agreements, Sanctions on Iran etc.

To say agreements are not able to be changed or terminated is simply not true. It's more Project Fear.

What are USA going to do if we withdraw from an agreement? Invade? Nuclear Attack? I think not

BS - "I love the smell of BS in the morning......"

Not project fear at all. The US will bind us in and if need be take out crippling sanctions against us if we don't play ball. As if we wouldn't play ball anyway. Boris will bend over for Trump all day long - as an ex-public schoolboy this should come naturally. If we engage in a trade deal with the US we will be held to that deal and do I trust this Tory government, led by Boris, to negotiate anything approaching a good deal for the UK? Not in a million years.

So by your lengthy answer you have agreed that any future agreement can be terminated or prematurely ended.

Thus contradicting yourself in your earlier post & agreeing with what I said.

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:31 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:25 pm


You mean like the USA are with the Climate Change Agreements, Sanctions on Iran etc.

To say agreements are not able to be changed or terminated is simply not true. It's more Project Fear.

What are USA going to do if we withdraw from an agreement? Invade? Nuclear Attack? I think not

BS - "I love the smell of BS in the morning......"

Not project fear at all. The US will bind us in and if need be take out crippling sanctions against us if we don't play ball. As if we wouldn't play ball anyway. Boris will bend over for Trump all day long - as an ex-public schoolboy this should come naturally. If we engage in a trade deal with the US we will be held to that deal and do I trust this Tory government, led by Boris, to negotiate anything approaching a good deal for the UK? Not in a million years.

So by your lengthy answer you have agreed that any future agreement can be terminated or prematurely ended.

Thus contradicting yourself in your earlier post & agreeing with what I said.

Nope - that’s not what I said at all.

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:58 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:31 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 pm

BS - "I love the smell of BS in the morning......"

Not project fear at all. The US will bind us in and if need be take out crippling sanctions against us if we don't play ball. As if we wouldn't play ball anyway. Boris will bend over for Trump all day long - as an ex-public schoolboy this should come naturally. If we engage in a trade deal with the US we will be held to that deal and do I trust this Tory government, led by Boris, to negotiate anything approaching a good deal for the UK? Not in a million years.

So by your lengthy answer you have agreed that any future agreement can be terminated or prematurely ended.

Thus contradicting yourself in your earlier post & agreeing with what I said.

Nope - that’s not what I said at all.

There can only be sanctions if we leave/ change agreement...so you are accepting we can change or leave agreement.


Sorry, but you have proved my earlier point

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:42 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:58 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:31 pm
So by your lengthy answer you have agreed that any future agreement can be terminated or prematurely ended.

Thus contradicting yourself in your earlier post & agreeing with what I said.

Nope - that’s not what I said at all.

There can only be sanctions if we leave/ change agreement...so you are accepting we can change or leave agreement.


Sorry, but you have proved my earlier point

Give that the US is the uni-polar world hegemon what state in its right mind would possibly renege on a trade deal with the US? The consequences would be severe, which is why its being pointed out to you that its as good as not an option. Look at the way the US has bullied Canada and Mexico in recent months (two, would be, allies). If any British government attempted to renegotiate or exit a trade deal with the US we would face the full force of its global reach and menace.

Canada & Mexico seem to be doing rather nicely thanks.

Corbyn has played right into Johnson hands by his intransigence towards Brexit.

Jo Swinson warned him at the end of July to trigger a Vote of no confidence immediately or it would be too late to hold a general election before October 31st and he batted her away. Seems Corbyn has just realised she was right... Or knew all along and is politicking

Either way, he's proving to be a great asset to Brexiters once again