Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Its not just an over 70s problem

Very imformative watch .

Coronavirus news – live: Europe unprepared for pandemic, doctors warn as continent locks down, airlines ground fleets and markets falter.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavi ... spartanntp

There's a petition going around because front-line NHS staff are asking for the ability to be tested and that isn't currently available to them. The obvious concern being that if they display any symptoms then they need to know whether to self isolate or go in to work - where they are desperately needed. Mind-boggling that this isn't already in place.

So the UK effectively stutters into lockdown now. I don’t want to criticise Johnson or his advisors unnecessarily, because it’s a difficult call whether to go the herd immunity route or fight the fire with a full Govt ordered lockdown right now, but they really should have made a clear edict closing things like pubs, clubs, restaurants and entertainment venues rather than just announce their strong advice for us to avoid them and pretty please do the social distancing thing.Those businesses will be completely f*cked and be less likely to be able to claim insurance or liquidity support this way.

slacker wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:05 pm So the UK effectively stutters into lockdown now. I don’t want to criticise Johnson or his advisors unnecessarily, because it’s a difficult call whether to go the herd immunity route or fight the fire with a full Govt ordered lockdown right now, but they really should have made a clear edict closing things like pubs, clubs, restaurants and entertainment venues rather than just announce their strong advice for us to avoid them and pretty please do the social distancing thing.Those businesses will be completely f*cked and be less likely to be able to claim insurance or liquidity support this way.

I completely agree. Overall the briefing format works well, and they clarified the 7/14 day isolation difference. Boris is managing to tone down his mannerisms to a point where I can just about suffer him, and gives the real experts plenty of time to explain things.

But businesses are getting absolutely f*cked here and UK Gov needs to accept that neo-liberal-capitalism-as-usual is on hold "for a significant period of time." I suspect they know this.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/h ... t-pandemic

Obviously the head medical and science honchos can't say they're concerned by how unprepared we are for this, but it is pretty chilling to think about. 5,000 ventilators total when the international evidence suggests we will need hundreds of thousands weekly at peak of infection. A prepared country doesn't ask it's car and digger manufacturers to switch to producing an essential medical device.

Just to add, this is true in most countries outside of SE Asia. The social contract between citizens and governments in the west was already bending. You wonder what the outcome of this all will be.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm

slacker wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:05 pm So the UK effectively stutters into lockdown now. I don’t want to criticise Johnson or his advisors unnecessarily, because it’s a difficult call whether to go the herd immunity route or fight the fire with a full Govt ordered lockdown right now, but they really should have made a clear edict closing things like pubs, clubs, restaurants and entertainment venues rather than just announce their strong advice for us to avoid them and pretty please do the social distancing thing.Those businesses will be completely f*cked and be less likely to be able to claim insurance or liquidity support this way.

I completely agree. Overall the briefing format works well, and they clarified the 7/14 day isolation difference. Boris is managing to tone down his mannerisms to a point where I can just about suffer him, and gives the real experts plenty of time to explain things.

But businesses are getting absolutely f*cked here and UK Gov needs to accept that neo-liberal-capitalism-as-usual is on hold "for a significant period of time." I suspect they know this.

f***, of course they know this! They've done their projections and are anticipating a high risk of insurance insolvencies. He's sacrificing individual businesses because they believe the alternative is even worse.

It's got to be that hasn't it? Am I over thinking this?

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:46 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm

slacker wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:05 pm So the UK effectively stutters into lockdown now. I don’t want to criticise Johnson or his advisors unnecessarily, because it’s a difficult call whether to go the herd immunity route or fight the fire with a full Govt ordered lockdown right now, but they really should have made a clear edict closing things like pubs, clubs, restaurants and entertainment venues rather than just announce their strong advice for us to avoid them and pretty please do the social distancing thing.Those businesses will be completely f*cked and be less likely to be able to claim insurance or liquidity support this way.

I completely agree. Overall the briefing format works well, and they clarified the 7/14 day isolation difference. Boris is managing to tone down his mannerisms to a point where I can just about suffer him, and gives the real experts plenty of time to explain things.

But businesses are getting absolutely f*cked here and UK Gov needs to accept that neo-liberal-capitalism-as-usual is on hold "for a significant period of time." I suspect they know this.

f***, of course they know this! They've done their projections and are anticipating a high risk of insurance insolvencies. He's sacrificing individual businesses because they believe the alternative is even worse.

It's got to be that hasn't it? Am I over thinking this?

No - I don't think you're over thinking it (unless I am). I was very struck by the way they strongly advise the population (the market) to avoid these businesses, but notably avoided any move to actually shut them down. So if your leisure business goes bankrupt, it's just "market forces" - sod you. Never mind, at least the Insurance industry doesn't have to pay out.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:02 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:46 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 pm

I completely agree. Overall the briefing format works well, and they clarified the 7/14 day isolation difference. Boris is managing to tone down his mannerisms to a point where I can just about suffer him, and gives the real experts plenty of time to explain things.

But businesses are getting absolutely f*cked here and UK Gov needs to accept that neo-liberal-capitalism-as-usual is on hold "for a significant period of time." I suspect they know this.

f***, of course they know this! They've done their projections and are anticipating a high risk of insurance insolvencies. He's sacrificing individual businesses because they believe the alternative is even worse.

It's got to be that hasn't it? Am I over thinking this?

No - I don't think you're over thinking it (unless I am). I was very struck by the way they strongly advise the population (the market) to avoid these businesses, but notably avoided any move to actually shut them down. So if your leisure business goes bankrupt, it's just "market forces" - sod you. Never mind, at least the Insurance industry doesn't have to pay out.

Seen quite a few instances where the Insurance companies have found a way to avoid paying out to businesses. Corona is now a notified disease so businesses think they can claim, but because Corona is new it's not yet on the "Notifiable disease list" the insurance companies use. Well I never, how lucky is that for the insurance industry!

I still haven’t grasped the bit how HK and Singapore can control the outbreak so well despite millions of people living on top of each other and Europe is falling to bits and prepared for hundreds of thousands of deaths?

Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:17 pm I still haven’t grasped the bit how HK and Singapore can control the outbreak so well despite millions of people living on top of each other and Europe is falling to bits and prepared for hundreds of thousands of deaths?

You're not alone, neither has Boris.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:17 pm I still haven’t grasped the bit how HK and Singapore can control the outbreak so well despite millions of people living on top of each other and Europe is falling to bits and prepared for hundreds of thousands of deaths?

Containment at a very early stage
Problem is though according to the academics is that when things go back to normal over in those parts of Asia the second wave of Corona virus will hit there population even harder

Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:17 pm I still haven’t grasped the bit how HK and Singapore can control the outbreak so well despite millions of people living on top of each other and Europe is falling to bits and prepared for hundreds of thousands of deaths?

Think being island states with a legacy of having dealt with SARS has helped them enormously. Much easier to do the prevent stage stuff if you're working to that kind of scale and understand fully the sacrifices that need to be made to prevent a wider outbreak.

Korea is the astonishing one to me. Enormous outbreak, the biggest at that stage outside of China, and they've managed to reign it in and have relatively few deaths in a democratic system ie not an authoritarian state that some have implied is necessary to get a lid on this.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:08 pm

Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:17 pm I still haven’t grasped the bit how HK and Singapore can control the outbreak so well despite millions of people living on top of each other and Europe is falling to bits and prepared for hundreds of thousands of deaths?

Think being island states with a legacy of having dealt with SARS has helped them enormously. Much easier to do the prevent stage stuff if you're working to that kind of scale and understand fully the sacrifices that need to be made to prevent a wider outbreak.

Korea is the astonishing one to me. Enormous outbreak, the biggest at that stage outside of China, and they've managed to reign it in and have relatively few deaths in a democratic system ie not an authoritarian state that some have implied is necessary to get a lid on this.

Korea implemented rigorous testing especially drive through testing and got on top of things as they were not blind as to where the hotshots where throughout the country. The Korean population also strictly adhered to social distancing and hygiene measures. They even reckon that they pushed back the flu season by a month.

It can be done but many countries responses have left them playing catch up and I'm afraid it's not something they will be able to handle as it looks like their health systems are vulnerable and will be overwhelmed. None of us have seen the like of it.

Keep the faith and stay apart. Hopefully, we all can them enjoy a good summer in your friends and families company.

Just looked on Flightradar24 app and we are still allowing Iberia flights from Madrid landing at Heathrow .Host of other flights from France and Spain are still flying and landing at our airports. Easy jet, Ryanair and BA have stopped all there flights from these areas and are only picking up holiday makers from the likes of Canary Islands. Where is the sense of allowing other airlines to land hear from infected areas world wide. We are an island and if we had tightened our restrictions and flights from infected areas earlier we may not be in the position we are expected to be in the days or weeks to come

I don't think it matters too much right now. The virus is already here. Only a completely lock down and closure of our boarders when the outbreak first started may have prevented this, but that was never going to be feasible (although may be seriously considered in the event of a future viral outbreak). Also, the public at large needs to develop immunity to this - be it through contagion or eventual vaccination.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:54 am I don't think it matters too much right now. The virus is already here. Only a completely lock down and closure of our boarders when the outbreak first started may have prevented this, but that was never going to be feasible (although may be seriously considered in the event of a future viral outbreak). Also, the public at large needs to develop immunity to this - be it through contagion or eventual vaccination.

The boarders I would lock down are L7 and PW.

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:25 am Where is the sense of allowing other airlines to land hear from infected areas world wide. We are an island and if we had tightened our restrictions and flights from infected areas earlier we may not be in the position we are expected to be in the days or weeks to come

To get British people home from abroad before it all shuts down maybe?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:45 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:54 am I don't think it matters too much right now. The virus is already here. Only a completely lock down and closure of our boarders when the outbreak first started may have prevented this, but that was never going to be feasible (although may be seriously considered in the event of a future viral outbreak). Also, the public at large needs to develop immunity to this - be it through contagion or eventual vaccination.

The boarders I would lock down are L7 and PW.

I hope Babs cabs are providing hand sanitizer etc

Seems USA have started human testing what does that do to Thor’s Canadian dream now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51906604

My local Sainsbury's closed from midnight tonight due to lack of stock

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:25 am Just looked on Flightradar24 app and we are still allowing Iberia flights from Madrid landing at Heathrow .Host of other flights from France and Spain are still flying and landing at our airports. Easy jet, Ryanair and BA have stopped all there flights from these areas and are only picking up holiday makers from the likes of Canary Islands. Where is the sense of allowing other airlines to land hear from infected areas world wide. We are an island and if we had tightened our restrictions and flights from infected areas earlier we may not be in the position we are expected to be in the days or weeks to come

I have a Ryanair flight to Madrid on Saturday, which as far as i know, isn't cancelled. Ludicrous.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:14 pm

moonwalk19 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:25 am Just looked on Flightradar24 app and we are still allowing Iberia flights from Madrid landing at Heathrow .Host of other flights from France and Spain are still flying and landing at our airports. Easy jet, Ryanair and BA have stopped all there flights from these areas and are only picking up holiday makers from the likes of Canary Islands. Where is the sense of allowing other airlines to land hear from infected areas world wide. We are an island and if we had tightened our restrictions and flights from infected areas earlier we may not be in the position we are expected to be in the days or weeks to come

I have a Ryanair flight to Madrid on Saturday, which as far as i know, isn't cancelled. Ludicrous.

Does that mean if you don’t want to go you cannot claim for a refund. Typical Ryanair. With their attitude towards passengers it’s a wonder anybody travels with them. I suppose it’s because they are cheaper than other airlines. The government is now saying people should avoid travelling abroad for the next 30days. Therefore you have an excuse not to travel and get a refund.
Good luck!