Page 226 of 342
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:12 am
by Mistadobalina
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
Higher deaths in several countries.
Belgian, Italy, Bosnia, North Macedonia, lichtenstein, San Marino and Peru for starters.
Around our level Spain, France, USA and many others.
The issue you have is how these are recorded. For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
For completeness from the ONS site only 1979 people had died of covid without having underlying conditions of which 377 were under 60 as at mid December.
Are you comparing based on government figures or all deaths with covid on the death certificate? As the latter figure is quite a lot bigger.
Whilst it's true that a lot of the people passing away from covid that would have also done so otherwise, total excess deaths are up substantially and during the first wave, I think it was us and Spain that had the highest figure.
It's definitely true that some countries are fudging their covid figures. Spain and America come to mind. But excess deaths are pretty absolute, and we have done dreadfully on that front.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 am
by BoniO
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am
If you have a positive covid test, hang on in there for more than 28 days before your lungs finally pack up, are you excluded from the death toll?
And the answer, of course, is yes, you will be excluded from being reported as a "covid related death".
Sad, how some on here still want to diminish the effects of the pandemic and apologise for our governments clear failings.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:16 am
by BoniO
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:53 am
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Thor would know a website where we could find these numbers. It'll be a huge number of course.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:42 am
by Long slender neck
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:53 am
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:43 am
by Long slender neck
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am
If you have a positive covid test, hang on in there for more than 28 days before your lungs finally pack up, are you excluded from the death toll?
Dont know but in hospital I think they test people every week.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:45 am
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:42 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:53 am
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:46 am
by Dunners
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:43 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am
If you have a positive covid test, hang on in there for more than 28 days before your lungs finally pack up, are you excluded from the death toll?
Dont know but in hospital I think they test people every week.
They do. Somebody I know was in there in mid-December for just over a week, and they were tested twice. they also needed a negative test before they were transferred to their ward.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:49 am
by Long slender neck
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:45 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:42 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:53 am
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Thats just not likely is it? If you're in hospital, they're testing you regularly.
I dont know how many are being infected in hospitals. But anecdotally, it has happened to a few people i know.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:59 am
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:49 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:45 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:42 am
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Thats just not likely is it? If you're in hospital, they're testing you regularly.
I dont know how many are being infected in hospitals. But anecdotally, it has happened to a few people i know.
So if you test positive for Covid, then go into hospital 2 days later with breathing difficulties, then continue to deteriorate and end up on a respirator, do you think they keep on testing you to make sure it's still Covid you're dying from? That's bonkers.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:03 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
It's not about death stats or which country has the most deaths per head or which method of counting deaths is most accurate or whether people are tested in hospital.
None of it matters, they just want a new way to say "Government bad".
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:04 pm
by Long slender neck
I dont know. People I know who have been in hospital recently were tested every week.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:06 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
You can't compare countries like the UK to small countries (that happen to have a higher death rate)
Unless you're comparing us to New Zealand then that's definitely allowed
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:23 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:06 pm
You can't compare countries like the UK to small countries
Exactly.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:30 pm
by faldO
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:49 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:45 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:42 am
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Thats just not likely is it? If you're in hospital, they're testing you regularly.
I dont know how many are being infected in hospitals. But anecdotally, it has happened to a few people i know.
1000s of people get covid
after going into hospital for something else, which is pretty horrific.
The 28 day "arguments" are largely moot as that data is used primarily for the Govt daily reporting and to keep the BBC happy. There is reporting by "covid mentioned on the death certificate", which it is going to be if you are in hospital for 3 months with covid and die from it, regardless of whether you're tested over that period. The "28 day" and "death certificate" totals are roughly the same anyway (latter slightly higher).
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:53 pm
by Rich Tea Wellin
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:03 pm
It's not about death stats or which country has the most deaths per head or which method of counting deaths is most accurate or whether people are tested in hospital.
None of it matters, they just want a new way to say "Government bad".
Yeah, we are really struggling to find things that might make the government look bad atm.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:00 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
There's plenty, which makes it even more ridiculous
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:01 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Saying the governments handling of this has been ‘bad’ is ridiculous? Come on.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:02 pm
by Smendrick Feaselberg
Moderna vaccine approved for use in the UK (though think we are back of the queue for this one).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55586410
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:13 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:01 pm
Saying the governments handling of this has been ‘bad’ is ridiculous? Come on.
That's the opposite of what I said
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
by Oiram
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:18 pm
by BoniO
Oiram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Boring......
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:19 pm
by Dunners
Oiram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Agreed. It's time to talk us up. As I've pointed out above; out of 152 countries, and in terms of absolute Covid deaths, the UK has scored the
fifth highest points.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:28 pm
by Smendrick Feaselberg
Major incident declared in London with the spread of covid "out of control"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55588163
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:50 pm
by Oiram
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:55 pm
by Oiram
Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:19 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Agreed. It's time to talk us up. As I've pointed out above; out of 152 countries, and in terms of absolute Covid deaths, the UK has scored the
fifth highest points.
It is difficult to identify what is ‘genuine anti Government criticism with valid constructive argument against pure ‘anti-Tory, pro Remain revenge’.