Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:31 pm

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:29 pm Covid numbers today are 13.71% positive.

A friend also mentioned to me today that they think 111 changed its directive end November, so that more people were being directed to hospitals. This is the 3rd source I have heard this from.

The more you test the more you find.

Can't remember if I posted this before from ONS. I think this was for the first 11 months in 2020. Number of deaths 470k. For under 60's 17k accidents, 4.8k suicides as we go down the list 0.655k falling down the stairs and finally 0.377k covid. Suicides is up significantly sadly.

So what is your point?

All lives matter*

*unless you're over 60 with underlying health issues

Threatening schools with legal action, because they were only trying to do what everybody knew the government would have to do eventually anyway, should not be allowed to slide.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:16 am Threatening schools with legal action, because they were only trying to do what everybody knew the government would have to do eventually anyway, should not be allowed to slide.

And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:54 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:22 am
And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

About 2% of kids have it according to data someone posted the other day. Can probably work it out from there.

Cases at work have exploded in the last week and for the first time since we've had testing more often than not there's clear outbreaks once one person tests positive rather than it being contained. Bloke I know went from high temperature to ventilator in 24 hours and hospital have pretty much said he has next to no chance of getting through. He was just over 60 though, overweight and used to puff a bit going up the stairs, so I guess he doesn't count

I said back in April or May there should be a plan for care home staff to bubble with the place of work for periods of a couple of weeks at a time, using the empty hotels that are being paid for anyway. Plenty of staff would take it up if they were paid. Instead the arm around us consists of being left with the ppe that's deemed not good enough for the NHS and tests that still take 5 days to get a result.

Starmer pushing for laws to criminalise anti-vax bods

Way to play in to their dystopian narrative of secret big state control

Not the right way to do things or important right now. He was looking pretty red faced last night on the telly.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:12 am Not the right way to do things or important right now. He was looking pretty red faced last night on the telly.

He always appears to me as a man, desperately trying to prevent and contain a fart, or having let a silent one to secretly escape, acts. shifty eyed, wondering if anyone has smelt it.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:22 am
And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

Why worry? Wumble believes that there is nothing to worry about from 1000’s of young people partying on NYE so why the concern over kids going to school? Isn’t it ‘fact’ that young school children cannot catch or move COVID?

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:36 am

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:22 am
And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

Why worry? Wumble believes that there is nothing to worry about from 1000’s of young people partying on NYE so why the concern over kids going to school? Isn’t it ‘fact’ that young school children cannot catch or move COVID?

Not as far as I'm aware - do you have some back up to that "fact" or did you just make it up ?

https://theconversation.com/children-ma ... -19-150523


"The latest research shows infections in children frequently go undetected, and that children are just as susceptible as adults to infection. Children likely transmit the virus at a similar rate to adults as well.

While children are thankfully much less likely than adults to get seriously ill, the same isn’t true for the adults that care for them.!"

I read that children are less likely to transmit because they do not get as many symptoms, so they're not coughing as much over others.

I'm pretty convinced that kids of primary school age are at the least much less prone to getting it and spreading it.

My daughter sat next to someone at school who tested positive for the week leading up to their test and was fine.

I was convinced that we were going to get it and we're all fine.

Boris said yesterday that schools are "vectors of transmission". The day before that he said they should stay open but then changed his great mind.

He is so out of his depth and is now literally killing people. I can't even make up my mind whether it's on purpose or simply negligence.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:56 am

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:36 am

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:22 am
And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

Why worry? Wumble believes that there is nothing to worry about from 1000’s of young people partying on NYE so why the concern over kids going to school? Isn’t it ‘fact’ that young school children cannot catch or move COVID?

Not as far as I'm aware - do you have some back up to that "fact" or did you just make it up ?

https://theconversation.com/children-ma ... -19-150523


"The latest research shows infections in children frequently go undetected, and that children are just as susceptible as adults to infection. Children likely transmit the virus at a similar rate to adults as well.

While children are thankfully much less likely than adults to get seriously ill, the same isn’t true for the adults that care for them.!"

Do I have some back up to that ‘fact’?

Only what I have read on here.

Have you read the link I posted, and followed that through to the CDC study and the other scientific papers on the subject?

In short, no, it is not a fact that school children cannot catch or move covid.

A key point/difference at the moment is the extent to which the new variant is more transmissible in younger people. The variant has not been around long enough for much scientific analysis and hence most of the conclusions are inferences from prior research and observations.

This report by the ECDC from 23/12 is interesting and has a good exec summary:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publicati ... ansmission

But crucially point 4:

This report does not consider the epidemiology of COVID-19 in relation to new variants of SARS-CoV-2, for which robust evidence on the potential impact in school settings is not yet available, such as one recently observed in the United Kingdom.

It's no doubt a divisive issue. From interviews/news most unions and many teachers want closure; amongst parents it seems less clear cut, and those kids I've seen interviewed almost all want to be back at school.

faldO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:45 am A key point/difference at the moment is the extent to which the new variant is more transmissible in younger people. The variant has not been around long enough for much scientific analysis and hence most of the conclusions are inferences from prior research and observations.

This report by the ECDC from 23/12 is interesting and has a good exec summary:

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publicati ... ansmission

But crucially point 4:

This report does not consider the epidemiology of COVID-19 in relation to new variants of SARS-CoV-2, for which robust evidence on the potential impact in school settings is not yet available, such as one recently observed in the United Kingdom.

It's no doubt a divisive issue. From interviews/news most unions and many teachers want closure; amongst parents it seems less clear cut, and those kids I've seen interviewed almost all want to be back at school.

Yes best let the kids decide. Or we could close the schools just in case the scientists have got it right. If not, no harm done.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:36 am

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:22 am
And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

Why worry? Wumble believes that there is nothing to worry about from 1000’s of young people partying on NYE so why the concern over kids going to school? Isn’t it ‘fact’ that young school children cannot catch or move COVID?

Evidence I said there's nothing to worry about?

Surprisingly, it's probably more of an issue if 9m or so kids are mixing 5 days a week at school than 500 at a rave. Interestingly some of the people who jump on any news article about kids breaking lockdown are convinced schools are safe and that teachers are just lazy bastards.

Get your narrative straight.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:01 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:36 am

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:22 am
And yesterday, apparently, some 3 million primary schoolchildren went to school (as Bowie once said - just for one day), mixed with their friends, shared around the virus between them, and then returned home to pass on the love to their own families.

I wonder how many parents, grandparents and others will eventually die just because of that one day. All all because Johnson had said the schools would be open and he didn't want to go back on it, despite knowing a couple of weeks before that he'd have to.

Why worry? Wumble believes that there is nothing to worry about from 1000’s of young people partying on NYE so why the concern over kids going to school? Isn’t it ‘fact’ that young school children cannot catch or move COVID?

Evidence I said there's nothing to worry about?

Surprisingly, it's probably more of an issue if 9m or so kids are mixing 5 days a week at school than 500 at a rave. Interestingly some of the people who jump on any news article about kids breaking lockdown are convinced schools are safe and that teachers are just lazy bastards.

Get your narrative straight.

Just feel sorry for the kids they will now have have the equivalent of half a year out of the classroom.

We're stocking up a whole load of problems for the education system for years to come as well.

Also quite angry with myself for voting in the clown cos I wanted Brexit sorted. I knew he was incompetent political half wit from when he was mayor and should have gone with my better judgement.

JimbO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 pm
Just feel sorry for the kids they will now have have the equivalent of half a year out of the classroom.

We're stocking up a whole load of problems for the education system for years to come as well.

Also quite angry with myself for voting in the clown cos I wanted Brexit sorted. I knew he was incompetent political half wit from when he was mayor and should have gone with my better judgement.

Fair play for being honest with yourself. I suspect that, notwithstanding any opinions about the credibility of the opposition at the time, there's plenty more feeling the same as you are are just not willing to admit it yet. As someone else has alluded to further up this thread, if the government messes up the vaccine roll-out then that should be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

My daughter was due to take her A-Levels this year, so am absolutely gutted for her. She's received offers from top universities, and is due to find out if she has a place at Oxford next week. But all of this will be based on expected exam results, which are all now up in the air. I'd like to say that I'm shocked that the DoE doesn't already have contingency plans in place for exam disruption given what happened last year, but I'm not.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:02 pm

JimbO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 pm
Just feel sorry for the kids they will now have have the equivalent of half a year out of the classroom.

We're stocking up a whole load of problems for the education system for years to come as well.

Also quite angry with myself for voting in the clown cos I wanted Brexit sorted. I knew he was incompetent political half wit from when he was mayor and should have gone with my better judgement.

Fair play for being honest with yourself. I suspect that, notwithstanding any opinions about the credibility of the opposition at the time, there's plenty more feeling the same as you are are just not willing to admit it yet. As someone else has alluded to further up this thread, if the government messes up the vaccine roll-out then that should be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

My daughter was due to take her A-Levels this year, so am absolutely gutted for her. She's received offers from top universities, and is due to find out if she has a place at Oxford next week. But all of this will be based on expected exam results, which are all now up in the air. I'd like to say that I'm shocked that the DoE doesn't already have contingency plans in place for exam disruption given what happened last year, but I'm not.

"If the government messes up the vaccine roll out"

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:25 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:02 pm

JimbO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:32 pm
Just feel sorry for the kids they will now have have the equivalent of half a year out of the classroom.

We're stocking up a whole load of problems for the education system for years to come as well.

Also quite angry with myself for voting in the clown cos I wanted Brexit sorted. I knew he was incompetent political half wit from when he was mayor and should have gone with my better judgement.

Fair play for being honest with yourself. I suspect that, notwithstanding any opinions about the credibility of the opposition at the time, there's plenty more feeling the same as you are are just not willing to admit it yet. As someone else has alluded to further up this thread, if the government messes up the vaccine roll-out then that should be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

My daughter was due to take her A-Levels this year, so am absolutely gutted for her. She's received offers from top universities, and is due to find out if she has a place at Oxford next week. But all of this will be based on expected exam results, which are all now up in the air. I'd like to say that I'm shocked that the DoE doesn't already have contingency plans in place for exam disruption given what happened last year, but I'm not.

"If the government messes up the vaccine roll out"

I know, I know.

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:02 pm
As someone else has alluded to further up this thread, if the government messes up the vaccine roll-out then that should be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I highly doubt it. Think of the incredible amount of things they have survived since 2010. We are just a centre right socially, centre left economically nation these days. People here want tradition, they want to feel good about what being British means to them, they want to enjoy exceptionalism and not reject it. The Tories can always move economically left and not lost support, but the opposition cannot move centre right without losing too much of their own support. That sort of versatility is what will keep them in.

They are going to rule this country for a very long time still.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:06 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:02 pm
As someone else has alluded to further up this thread, if the government messes up the vaccine roll-out then that should be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I highly doubt it. Think of the incredible amount of things they have survived since 2010. We are just a centre right socially, centre left economically nation these days. People here want tradition, they want to feel good about what being British means to them, they want to enjoy exceptionalism and not reject it. The Tories can always move economically left and not lost support, but the opposition cannot move centre right without losing too much of their own support. That sort of versatility is what will keep them in.

They are going to rule this country for a very long time still.

I believe you have your centres the wrong way round