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Does he even own it? I thought Putin made him buy it as part of the bid to get Russia the World Cup and to smooth the path into wining and dining the London businessmen in the hospitality suites as the Petrogas roubles bought the London establishment.Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:13 pm Statement from Abramovitch on handing over control of Chelsea FC.
www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2022/02/26/st ... abramovich
That is a concern. I'm sure military and FO strategists are looking at a range of possibilities, from offering him some form of optic victory so he can withdraw without losing face, to him being assassinated. But aggression is all he seems to respond to.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:22 pmAn unhappy Putin might be even worse. Think further intimidation/provocation of other nations and increased missile bombardment of UkraineDunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:20 pm Things really seem to be happening. Kazakhstan and China are backing away, ejection from SWIFT is looking likely. And the Germans are finally doing the right thing.
All the above, combined with the incredible bravery and resistance of the Ukrainian people, and the news that the Chechen general may have been killed in action, gives us hope. Putin will not be happy.
Is there a reason why Russia's invasion has been relatively muted so far? If they wanted to take Kiev and other major cities out, surely could have been done by now? Is it to minimise russian military losses or to reduce potential civilian losses so they can keep up their pretence of peacekeepers? Or is the Russian military really not invested in what they are being asked to do?Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:31 pm The resolve to avoid any military contact between NATO and Russia is still strong. But we ain't seen the second attack wave yet. So far only about a third of Russian forces have crossed into Ukraine, and many of them seem to be bewildered conscripts from the Caucases.
The Russians are probing for weaknesses and will adapt. The second wave will include their elite forces and real heavy equipment, and will overcome some of the logistical errors made so far. We may even see the use of thermobaric weapons.
This will be tough to witness and could have an impact on public opinion and political appetite for intervention. Imagine the impact of tension of thousands of bodies littered through the street. So I get where Pammy is coming from.
So far we have been entirely reactive and have done so in a way that Putin could have entirely predicted. If NATO starts to believe an intervention is necessary then it will need to seize the initiative and be prepared to take real risks.
Since you know far more about this than me, why would bumping off Putin make things better as opposed to worse with his successor wanting/needing to avenge his death?Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:27 pmThat is a concern. I'm sure military and FO strategists are looking at a range of possibilities, from offering him some form of optic victory so he can withdraw without losing face, to him being assassinated. But aggression is all he seems to respond to.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:22 pmAn unhappy Putin might be even worse. Think further intimidation/provocation of other nations and increased missile bombardment of UkraineDunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:20 pm Things really seem to be happening. Kazakhstan and China are backing away, ejection from SWIFT is looking likely. And the Germans are finally doing the right thing.
All the above, combined with the incredible bravery and resistance of the Ukrainian people, and the news that the Chechen general may have been killed in action, gives us hope. Putin will not be happy.
From what I've read they've not sent in their most skilles troops yet. Presumably they sent in their grunts after the initial bombardments hoping that it would be enough to intimidate Ukraine into surrender/negotiations without losing their elite fighters.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:30 pmIs there a reason why Russia's invasion has been relatively muted so far? If they wanted to take Kiev and other major cities out, surely could have been done by now? Is it to minimise russian military losses or to reduce potential civilian losses so they can keep up their pretence of peacekeepers? Or is the Russian military really not invested in what they are being asked to do?Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:31 pm The resolve to avoid any military contact between NATO and Russia is still strong. But we ain't seen the second attack wave yet. So far only about a third of Russian forces have crossed into Ukraine, and many of them seem to be bewildered conscripts from the Caucases.
The Russians are probing for weaknesses and will adapt. The second wave will include their elite forces and real heavy equipment, and will overcome some of the logistical errors made so far. We may even see the use of thermobaric weapons.
This will be tough to witness and could have an impact on public opinion and political appetite for intervention. Imagine the impact of tension of thousands of bodies littered through the street. So I get where Pammy is coming from.
So far we have been entirely reactive and have done so in a way that Putin could have entirely predicted. If NATO starts to believe an intervention is necessary then it will need to seize the initiative and be prepared to take real risks.
Having obviously planned this invasion for so long, it seems really odd that it's being done sporadically and in a way that allows ft or big losses of Russian troops.
This is what I'm reading, although there appears to be plenty of very poor logistical planning too. I also think the underestimated the resilience and resolve of the Ukrainians.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:33 pmFrom what I've read they've not sent in their most skilles troops yet. Presumably they sent in their grunts after the initial bombardments hoping that it would be enough to intimidate Ukraine into surrender/negotiations without losing their elite fighters.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:30 pmIs there a reason why Russia's invasion has been relatively muted so far? If they wanted to take Kiev and other major cities out, surely could have been done by now? Is it to minimise russian military losses or to reduce potential civilian losses so they can keep up their pretence of peacekeepers? Or is the Russian military really not invested in what they are being asked to do?Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:31 pm The resolve to avoid any military contact between NATO and Russia is still strong. But we ain't seen the second attack wave yet. So far only about a third of Russian forces have crossed into Ukraine, and many of them seem to be bewildered conscripts from the Caucases.
The Russians are probing for weaknesses and will adapt. The second wave will include their elite forces and real heavy equipment, and will overcome some of the logistical errors made so far. We may even see the use of thermobaric weapons.
This will be tough to witness and could have an impact on public opinion and political appetite for intervention. Imagine the impact of tension of thousands of bodies littered through the street. So I get where Pammy is coming from.
So far we have been entirely reactive and have done so in a way that Putin could have entirely predicted. If NATO starts to believe an intervention is necessary then it will need to seize the initiative and be prepared to take real risks.
Having obviously planned this invasion for so long, it seems really odd that it's being done sporadically and in a way that allows ft or big losses of Russian troops.
It's not guaranteed, but he has a very small circle of confidents and backers. And, seeing the fallout, it would give someone the opportunity to establish themselves as a reformer and bridge builder back to non-pariah status.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:30 pmSince you know far more about this than me, why would bumping off Putin make things better as opposed to worse with his successor wanting/needing to avenge his death?Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:27 pmThat is a concern. I'm sure military and FO strategists are looking at a range of possibilities, from offering him some form of optic victory so he can withdraw without losing face, to him being assassinated. But aggression is all he seems to respond to.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:22 pm
An unhappy Putin might be even worse. Think further intimidation/provocation of other nations and increased missile bombardment of Ukraine
Guess I don't really understand why they haven't used their total air dominance to level Ukraine's defences. And they've done enough indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas to eliminate any plausible deniability that this is an invasion to preserve the peace, but not so much as to start taking over major towns and cities.Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:36 pmThis is what I'm reading, although there appears to be plenty of very poor logistical planning too. I also think the underestimated the resilience and resolve of the Ukrainians.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:33 pmFrom what I've read they've not sent in their most skilles troops yet. Presumably they sent in their grunts after the initial bombardments hoping that it would be enough to intimidate Ukraine into surrender/negotiations without losing their elite fighters.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:30 pm
Is there a reason why Russia's invasion has been relatively muted so far? If they wanted to take Kiev and other major cities out, surely could have been done by now? Is it to minimise russian military losses or to reduce potential civilian losses so they can keep up their pretence of peacekeepers? Or is the Russian military really not invested in what they are being asked to do?
Having obviously planned this invasion for so long, it seems really odd that it's being done sporadically and in a way that allows ft or big losses of Russian troops.
It's a big country. Let them in and run down their materiel. Defend the cities, street by street. They will pay the cost. Besides the Russian military despite the rebuild with Petrogas Dollars isn't all its cracked up to be.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:02 pmGuess I don't really understand why they haven't used their total air dominance to level Ukraine's defences. And they've done enough indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas to eliminate any plausible deniability that this is an invasion to preserve the peace, but not so much as to start taking over major towns and cities.Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:36 pmThis is what I'm reading, although there appears to be plenty of very poor logistical planning too. I also think the underestimated the resilience and resolve of the Ukrainians.Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:33 pm
From what I've read they've not sent in their most skilles troops yet. Presumably they sent in their grunts after the initial bombardments hoping that it would be enough to intimidate Ukraine into surrender/negotiations without losing their elite fighters.
There's not really a precedent for a 21st century conflict between two relatively advanced armies so it feels very surreal all round. But it just seems like if Russia had wanted this to be done comprehensively and quickly, they could have it done by now. Nothing has stopped them crossing borders, flooding the country with heavy equipment and encircling every city.
Without understanding how military tactics work, my assumption is that Ukraine is just delaying the inevitable for a few days and then it'll be on to insurgency tactics in the cities. That is unless cracks start to show in Russia domestically.
Id be more worried about Putin readying his Nukes against
UK should be OK then. The Tories are bought and paid for mates of Mad Vlad.tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:07 pmId be more worried about Putin readying his Nukes against
European leaders/Nations who he says are threatening Russia .
Which he has done within the last hour
Do they own the american air force bases & nukesMax B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:20 pmUK should be OK then. The Tories are bought and paid for mates of Mad Vlad.
All UK nuclear missile bearing submarines are at sea and in position.tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:23 pmDo they own the american air force bases & nukesMax B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:20 pmUK should be OK then. The Tories are bought and paid for mates of Mad Vlad.
On the British mainland as well ?
If he's mad enough to use them he can kiss Russia good-bye. He might be happy to see Russia destroyed but what about his people. No winners only losers.tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:07 pmId be more worried about Putin readying his Nukes against
European leaders/Nations who he says are threatening Russia .
Which he has done within the last hour
Iasked about air bases, does the uk only have submarine nukes? im not upto date on the uks american arsenal .Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:37 pmAll UK nuclear missile bearing submarines are at sea and in position.tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:23 pmDo they own the american air force bases & nukesMax B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:20 pm
UK should be OK then. The Tories are bought and paid for mates of Mad Vlad.
On the British mainland as well ?
surely you arent asking if hes mad enough are you ?RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:21 pmIf he's mad enough to use them he can kiss Russia good-bye. He might be happy to see Russia destroyed but what about his people. No winners only losers.
Yes, fair point .tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:25 pmsurely you arent asking if hes mad enough are you ?RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:21 pmIf he's mad enough to use them he can kiss Russia good-bye. He might be happy to see Russia destroyed but what about his people. No winners only losers.