Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:43 pm**

Admin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:01 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:41 pm
Admin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:27 pm

Can you please refer me to where anyone is supporting Hamas?
It appears there are no decapitated babies. This was put out originally by the IDF ( Israel Defence force), and broadcast on Israeli TV. Its propaganda. when asked by various reporters, if Israeli soldiers had actually seen any decapitated babies, not a single one said they had actually seen it with their own eyes, but its the type of thing Hamas would do.
So, not a single person, as far as I know, has actually seen a baby with its head absent, yet idiots like F&F, come on here and declare this as fact.
As an aside, why are the yanks getting involved? Israel has the 4th biggest military in the world, they can kill as many Palestinians and Gazains as they want, without needing American help.
It appears uncontested that Hamas has murdered babies and children in it's attacks on Israeli citizens. To be focusing on the disinformation part of this story rather than the crimes Hamas has committed is just wrong. Twitter right now seems to be full of utter fannies using the (as yet) unverified beheadings story as some sort of gotcha and deflection.

There is clearly going to be disinformation in this conflict and I get (and agree) the point that the media shouldn't report unverified bullshit. But, the fact remains, Hamas has committed heinous atrocities.

Hamas's actions are as you describe them.

But it's also important to be aware of the disinformation/propaganda/media bias because that is an extension of the war into everyone's lives and forms their opinions about what is going on and tells them which side they should be on.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:44 pm**

In Kfar Aza, no one was too old, too young or too weak for slaughter. It took the Israeli army half a day to reach the kibbutz of 750 people in southern Israel and fighting continued there for three days. In that time Hamas gunmen killed and mutilated dozens of civilian residents.

“Mothers, fathers, babies, young families killed in their beds, in the protection room, in the dining room, in their garden,” Maj Gen Itai Veruv of the Israel Defence Forces told the BBC, as his troops searched homes for bodies of victims. “It’s not a war, it’s not a battlefield. It’s a massacre.”

“They killed them and cut some of their heads, it’s a dreadful thing to see,” Davidi Ben Zion, the deputy commander of Unit 71, the paratroopers who led the Israeli forces into Kfar Aza, told Reuters.

“Thank God we saved many lives of many parents and children,” he said. “Unfortunately, some were burned by molotov [cocktails]. They are very aggressive, like animals.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... cre-israel

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm**

It’s also important to recognise that “partial debunking” is often used as if it’s a full debunking of the entire substance, and that such back and forth reinforce the idea that it’s impossible for anyone to be able to get to the actual truth, and to eventually metaphorically shrug. The focus is now so clearly on the accuracy or lack thereof of the reporting of the exact nature of the killings, that it normalises the killings themselves in the discourse.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm**

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:47 pm It makes me laugh, all these idiots on here pontificating about things and causes they know absolutely fcuk all about. Especially the two main propagandists ComeUpYourArse and Max B Drivel.

Enlighten us then about what you know. Play the ball not the man.

And if my posts are such drivel ask yourself why the MBs top geopolitical analyst is engaging with them and completely ignores your bitter sniping.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:50 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm
Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:47 pm It makes me laugh, all these idiots on here pontificating about things and causes they know absolutely fcuk all about. Especially the two main propagandists ComeUpYourArse and Max B Drivel.
Enlighten us then about what you know. Play the ball not the man.

And if my posts are such drivel ask yourself why the MBs top geopolitical analyst is engaging with them and completely ignores your bitter sniping.

“Play the ball not the man”

Ah yes, engage with the arguments rather than dismissing the motives of the man making them. Something you’ve been impeccable at sticking to yourself across a multitude of issues

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:53 pm**

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm It’s also important to recognise that “partial debunking” is often used as if it’s a full debunking of the entire substance, and that such back and forth reinforce the idea that it’s impossible for anyone to be able to get to the actual truth, and to eventually metaphorically shrug. The focus is now so clearly on the accuracy or lack thereof of the reporting of the exact nature of the killings, that it normalises the killings themselves in the discourse.

Agree re partial debunking and its purpose. But its too strong to say its taken the focus off the actual killings.

Women and children were murdered that is not in doubt no amount of internet duelling and obfuscation is going to change that and nobody is going to forget it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:55 pm**

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:50 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm
Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:47 pm It makes me laugh, all these idiots on here pontificating about things and causes they know absolutely fcuk all about. Especially the two main propagandists ComeUpYourArse and Max B Drivel.
Enlighten us then about what you know. Play the ball not the man.

And if my posts are such drivel ask yourself why the MBs top geopolitical analyst is engaging with them and completely ignores your bitter sniping.
“Play the ball not the man”

Ah yes, engage with the arguments rather than dismissing the motives of the man making them. Something you’ve been impeccable at sticking to yourself across a multitude of issues

A WUM is a WUM. This thread isn't the place to discuss your frustrations. You weren't exactly impeccable on playing the ball either. Truce?

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:59 pm**

Finding the militancy and outright racism of some of the pro Palestinian reaction amongst the general population across the world after an explicitly antisemitic atrocity incredibly depressing.

Even if it's a tiny fringe, the sight of people chanting 'gas the Jews ' outside of Sydney opera house, smashed restaurants in North London, reported attacks in France, it's all so grim. Feel awful for any Jewish person who has to deal with this sh*t, it's absolutely grotesque.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:10 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:55 pm
CEB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:50 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm

Enlighten us then about what you know. Play the ball not the man.

And if my posts are such drivel ask yourself why the MBs top geopolitical analyst is engaging with them and completely ignores your bitter sniping.
“Play the ball not the man”

Ah yes, engage with the arguments rather than dismissing the motives of the man making them. Something you’ve been impeccable at sticking to yourself across a multitude of issues
A WUM is a WUM. This thread isn't the place to discuss your frustrations. You weren't exactly impeccable on playing the ball either. Truce?

I’m a goalkeeper. I don’t play the ball or the man. I just throw myself in front of the ball gambling that I won’t look silly

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:00 pm**

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:26 pm I suspect, along with killing Jews, their further objectives are to amplify the information war and increase tensions across the wider region, as well as in Western cities with a relatively high proportion of immigrants.

And, right on cue, one of the founding members of Hamas, Khalid Mashal, has issued a request (from his luxury residence in Qatar) to Muslims to "show anger" this Friday, and to carry our Jihad and be martyrs. This includes those you have the means, trying their best to cross the Israeli border. But otherwise to do what ever they can all around the world.

He's also asking for money, but his final words are "Funds are important but today we are asking for your blood and souls."

This is what they want. And this is going to get proper messy.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:21 pm**

Perhaps Iran is just taking a leaf out of the West's book and funding/supplying a "war by proxy" of their own.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:55 pm**

Iran didn't need any lessons from the West (or Russia) on proxy wars. They've been stiring the tensions in the Middle East for decades and have been doing the same against the Saudis in Yeman. But, for some reason, a lot of the left has a blind spot to them.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:10 pm**

It’s only a matter of time before Iran has nukes . When that happens all bets are off .

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:34 pm**

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:55 pm Iran didn't need any lessons from the West (or Russia) on proxy wars. They've been stiring the tensions in the Middle East for decades and have been doing the same against the Saudis in Yeman. But, for some reason, a lot of the left has a blind spot to them.

Not so much a blind spot but happy to watch two objectionable dictatorships tear themselves apart whilst supporting leftists in those countries to build their organisations and one day topple them.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:06 pm**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:10 pm It’s only a matter of time before Iran has nukes . When that happens all bets are off .

Are you an armchair scientist today Mr Benn?

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:46 pm**

There's no doubt now. Hamas terrorists did rape women and did decapitate women and children.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:52 pm**

Flying Hippo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:46 pm There's no doubt now. Hamas terrorists did rape women and did decapitate women and children.

Thats not true.
Post your source

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:58 pm**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:10 pm It’s only a matter of time before Iran has nukes . When that happens all bets are off .

still waiting for Putin to use the nukes you said he would use.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:03 pm**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432

Why the BBC wont call Hamas terrorists

quite an odd read, they use the word terrorist in their reporting all the time.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:18 pm**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:52 pm
Flying Hippo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:46 pm There's no doubt now. Hamas terrorists did rape women and did decapitate women and children.
Thats not true.
Post your source

If it turns out to be true, how will you feel?

To be honest i dont want to look for evidence on this one.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:35 pm**

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:18 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:52 pm
Flying Hippo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 5:46 pm There's no doubt now. Hamas terrorists did rape women and did decapitate women and children.
Thats not true.
Post your source
If it turns out to be true, how will you feel?

To be honest i dont want to look for evidence on this one.

You see yet again this fcuking dumbcluck is in complete denial. A Sky news reporter said he had actually seen the decapitated woman.
What a thoroughly nasty piece of work this particular Jew hater is.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:14 pm**

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:59 pm Finding the militancy and outright racism of some of the pro Palestinian reaction amongst the general population across the world after an explicitly antisemitic atrocity incredibly depressing.

Even if it's a tiny fringe, the sight of people chanting 'gas the Jews ' outside of Sydney opera house, smashed restaurants in North London, reported attacks in France, it's all so grim. Feel awful for any Jewish person who has to deal with this sh*t, it's absolutely grotesque.

Agree completely.
If you live in London, such vile scum live among you.

It doesn't matter which country you're "from", which "religion" you follow, if you celebrate people and children being blown up and raped you are a repulsive no-mark.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:38 pm**

All this yet no one knows the answer to how these people will ever have peace.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:52 pm**

Regularly happy to pick up COYOS on some of his nonsense but I don't think he deserves to be called a Jew hater for asking for some verification. Obviously things change quickly but as far as I can see, Sky news (cited above as having corroborated things) are still being careful to make clear the reports are unverified: https://news.sky.com/story/its-importan ... l-12982329

I think someone posted earlier about it being a bit ridiculous to argue over exactly how these people were murdered, most sane people can agree what happened was heinous. But facts do still matter, especially when specific claims like this are so emotive and play a part in trying to paint people as 'animals'. It may well turn out to be true, I don't think anyone on here has come out and said it isn't, but it isn't unreasonable to query what has and hasn't been verified so far and you should be able to do so without being accused of excusing terrorism or hating Jews.

Posted: **Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:48 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:47 pm
Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:47 pm It makes me laugh, all these idiots on here pontificating about things and causes they know absolutely fcuk all about. Especially the two main propagandists ComeUpYourArse and Max B Drivel.
Enlighten us then about what you know. Play the ball not the man.

Says the man who called me a ‘dickhead’ for calling out Hamas.

What a complete hypocrite you are. Dhansak is completely right about you.

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