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I call it political realism. The Scotch Labour Party committed Hari-kari years ago.
Don’t really understand why Corbyn didn’t jump at the chance of a GE. He’s been seeking one for ever.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:23 pm Johnson could ensure no deal before a vote is even made as he could set or change the election date to after Oct 31
But winning an election would do exactly that for Corbyn. So he cannot be confident of winning at all. Hasn’t got the courage to go to the country.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:29 pm Must believe that blocking no deal is more important
You've not been listening (or you've chosen to ignore what you've heard).dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:48 pmBut winning an election would do exactly that for Corbyn. So he cannot be confident of winning at all. Hasn’t got the courage to go to the country.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:29 pm Must believe that blocking no deal is more important
The GE was to decide who sat down with the EU to continue discussions, well assuming Boris wasn’t lying. 15 Oct was the date they voted on. With a change in leader all bets are off. Corbyn was talking about a GE a few days ago. Blair in a radio interview warned against it. Boris will play hard ball, even breaking the law to get what he wants,StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:31 pmYou've not been listening (or you've chosen to ignore what you've heard).dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:48 pmBut winning an election would do exactly that for Corbyn. So he cannot be confident of winning at all. Hasn’t got the courage to go to the country.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:29 pm Must believe that blocking no deal is more important
If Parly votes to allow a GE, then Johnson can play with the date and put it back beyond 31/10 while at the same time Parly shuts down so no more work can be done to stop no-deal. So even if Labour wins an election after 31/10, we're out with no-deal and we're all left to pick up the pieces.
Refusing a General Election until no-deal is impossible is the very definition of putting country before party. The very fact that the Tories are so desperately (and very childishly) trying to goad him into it shows how bad an idea it would be.
What I read on the BBC was that they voted for a snap GE on 15 Oct. The previous Monday Boris said he didn’t want a GE and Corbyn said he did. The snap election vote date was 15 Oct.StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:50 pm Sigh.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
"If Parly votes to allow a GE, then Johnson can play with the date and put it back beyond 31/10 while at the same time Parly shuts down so no more work can be done to stop no-deal"
Can you not just read and understand that sentence?
Of course, I don’t trust any politician, but talk about changing dates is pure speculation and tbh I reckon he would have gone for it, a decent win puts him in a far stronger position to get a deal, a defeat and it’s no longer his problem. And I have little doubt he would have won, given all the spending stuff going on. Timing.StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:00 pm Although the date 15/10 was "promised", there'd be nothing at all to stop Johnson just arbitrarily changing the date. You've said yourself that he'd break the law to get what he wants - why on earth would you think that he'd keep a promise to have the GE on 15/10, when he could easily just change the date to beyond 31/10 and get what he wanted. He'd then go into that Election as the PM who'd "delivered Brexit" (without the actual effects being evident just yet)
What I don’t understand is that having thought through all the jiggers pokery options open to Boris, as you have elaborated, two days earlier JC was calling for a GE.StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:48 pm Of course, you know better than the leaders of all the opposition parties whether or not he can be trusted. (They've all stated that their reason for not backing the GE call under FTPA last week was because they believed he'd change the date - and, as I explained above, that would be the easiest way of him getting his way.)
Can you not read? Saying ‘ I don’t understand’ repeatedly does not show you in the best light.dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:29 pmWhat I don’t understand is that having thought through all the jiggers pokery options open to Boris, as you have elaborated, two days earlier JC was calling for a GE.StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:48 pm Of course, you know better than the leaders of all the opposition parties whether or not he can be trusted. (They've all stated that their reason for not backing the GE call under FTPA last week was because they believed he'd change the date - and, as I explained above, that would be the easiest way of him getting his way.)
Why? Had he not considered all the points you mentioned? Was he blind to the possibilities you suggest, or was he just grandstanding. However you slice it, it is an amazing U-Turn.
Boris called his bluff and Corbyn folded. That’s why he has been subjected to the chicken comments. Corbyn misjudged the situation when he called for a GE that he didn’t really want, having no doubt thought about all the opportunities that may present to Boris. He gambled on Boris not suggesting a GE and he got it wrong.
Why? Are you so clever you understand everything? If so well done.Disoriented wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:48 pmCan you not read? Saying ‘ I don’t understand’ repeatedly does not show you in the best light.dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:29 pmWhat I don’t understand is that having thought through all the jiggers pokery options open to Boris, as you have elaborated, two days earlier JC was calling for a GE.StillSpike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:48 pm Of course, you know better than the leaders of all the opposition parties whether or not he can be trusted. (They've all stated that their reason for not backing the GE call under FTPA last week was because they believed he'd change the date - and, as I explained above, that would be the easiest way of him getting his way.)
Why? Had he not considered all the points you mentioned? Was he blind to the possibilities you suggest, or was he just grandstanding. However you slice it, it is an amazing U-Turn.
Boris called his bluff and Corbyn folded. That’s why he has been subjected to the chicken comments. Corbyn misjudged the situation when he called for a GE that he didn’t really want, having no doubt thought about all the opportunities that may present to Boris. He gambled on Boris not suggesting a GE and he got it wrong.
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:07 pmWhy? Are you so clever you understand everything? If so well done.Disoriented wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:48 pmCan you not read? Saying ‘ I don’t understand’ repeatedly does not show you in the best light.dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:29 pm
What I don’t understand is that having thought through all the jiggers pokery options open to Boris, as you have elaborated, two days earlier JC was calling for a GE.
Why? Had he not considered all the points you mentioned? Was he blind to the possibilities you suggest, or was he just grandstanding. However you slice it, it is an amazing U-Turn.
Boris called his bluff and Corbyn folded. That’s why he has been subjected to the chicken comments. Corbyn misjudged the situation when he called for a GE that he didn’t really want, having no doubt thought about all the opportunities that may present to Boris. He gambled on Boris not suggesting a GE and he got it wrong.
Me. I have the confidence, maturity and wisdom to know I don’t understand everything and am not embarrassed to better my understand by entering into debate. It’s a grown up sort of thing. I thought you would understand that.
What it ‘seems like to you’ is way off reality. Best to not comment on things you do not understand.dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:18 pm With Corbyn taking every opportunity to suggest a GE, even a week or so ago, isn’t it strange that when the opportunity arises he is not so keen.
We all know the reasons given, but the underlying reason must be that he feels Labour cannot win and by losing it will give Johnson the mandate to plough on with No deal.
Have Labour in general and Corbyn in particular accepted they cannot win a GE. That’s what it seems like to me.