Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:53 am

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:33 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:57 am

What are the Democrats ? Answers on a postcard please . Anyway I know you're not that thick Tuffers . I know you just like to tease .

They’re centrists, American politicians doesn’t have a functioning left wing

I read that many trade unions are increasingly aligned with the Republicans. Depending on the definition of left wing, if true*, that would increasingly make the GOP the party of the working class, and the Democrats the party of the liberal progressive class.


*I genuinely have no idea if it's true or not and have no intention of looking it up.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:08 am Blimey. The Democrats couldn't even buy a win.

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:00 am The graph is wrong for the two states at the bottom of the table??

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:18 am I mean North Carolina for example, it’s dead red — Dems basically spending out of desperation

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:27 am

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:53 am

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:33 am

They’re centrists, American politicians doesn’t have a functioning left wing

I read that many trade unions are increasingly aligned with the Republicans. Depending on the definition of left wing, if true*, that would increasingly make the GOP the party of the working class, and the Democrats the party of the liberal progressive class.


*I genuinely have no idea if it's true or not and have no intention of looking it up.

Exactly Dunners . I wonder if we're entering an era where it's not left V right anymore but up V down . Up being the elite , the establishment. Down , being the people . Like I said , it's only a thought .

CEB2ElectricBoogaloo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:16 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 10:05 am You’re right. May and then Johnson were so much more ‘fit for office’, whatever that means.

This is what is meant by the unwillingness of the left to reflect. May and Johnson were indeed unfit for office, but that doesn’t deal with the criticisms of Corbyn.

And I suspect that if the left want to get anywhere near power again, they will absolutely need to properly engage with the criticisms of left wing figures that have actual substance.

Otherwise, the left will be actively playing its part in politics being done without them.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:50 am

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:26 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 9:01 pm Why don't the goodies have some policies that would actually excite and inspire people?

Corbyn’s policies, when put to voters, were very popular but the RW press was very successful at painting him personally as unfit for office cos he didn’t wear a tie or ate lentils or whatever

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/john-curtice-labo ... -policies/

If only he didnt love terrorists etc.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:30 am The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

CEB2ElectricBoogaloo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:39 am Do you think that my issues with Corbyn are his poppy size?

How about for starters - him being truly awful as a communicator when trying to persuade anyone but the converted, when excellent communication skills are absolutely crucial to anyone hoping to overcome the best efforts of a hostile media?

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:42 am

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:50 am

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:26 am

Corbyn’s policies, when put to voters, were very popular but the RW press was very successful at painting him personally as unfit for office cos he didn’t wear a tie or ate lentils or whatever

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/john-curtice-labo ... -policies/

If only he didnt love terrorists etc.

I don’t think he does love terrorists. He (correctly) recognises that many terror groups, as appalling as their acts are, have justifiable grievances, and is unwilling to pretend he doesn’t.

I think his stubbornness has been one of his biggest strengths and his biggest weakness. He’s the most principled politician for a generation, but he’s hopelessly lacking in pragmatism and unwilling to compromise.

By contrast, Starmer was willing to play the game to try and oust a party that is careening towards full-blown far-right lunacy, but either isn’t interested in addressing inequality or thinks trying to do so isn’t worth the risk. (I don’t think he’s interested personally, but who knows.)

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:56 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:30 am The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:03 pm

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:56 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:30 am The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

Agreed - but being aware it’s the ‘f*** you’ option is different to actively supporting someone.

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:18 pm Millionaire and member of the professional elite class James O'Brien berates the American public for wanting to put food on the table rather than caring about "liberal democratic norms".

oxo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:56 am

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:30 am The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

I like to think I wouldn’t do the same if I were in their position, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:49 pm Green Party sticking it to Trump with a word salad