Harris v. Trump

[RedDwarf 1881]

What are the Democrats ? Answers on a postcard please . Anyway I know you're not that thick Tuffers . I know you just like to tease .

They’re centrists, American politicians doesn’t have a functioning left wing

I read that many trade unions are increasingly aligned with the Republicans. Depending on the definition of left wing, if true*, that would increasingly make the GOP the party of the working class, and the Democrats the party of the liberal progressive class.


*I genuinely have no idea if it's true or not and have no intention of looking it up.

Exactly Dunners . I wonder if we're entering an era where it's not left V right anymore but up V down . Up being the elite , the establishment. Down , being the people . Like I said , it's only a thought .

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, that’s certainly not the case because there’s no way whatsoever that in that analogy Trump and Elon Musk are “the people”

[Dunners]

I think it's private finance vs corporate finance, with Trumpism being a latter day version of Peronism. But organised US labour is hedging its bets that it may achieve more gains through temporary alignment with private finance.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Blimey. The Democrats couldn't even buy a win.

Where's the graphic for Russian hacker spending?

[Give it to Jabo]

The graph is wrong for the two states at the bottom of the table??

[oxo]

The graph is wrong for the two states at the bottom of the table??

No, the numbers on the right are totals. The Republicans didn’t spend much in those states because they knew it was in the bag

[oxo]

I mean North Carolina for example, it’s dead red — Dems basically spending out of desperation

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

I mean North Carolina for example, it’s dead red — Dems basically spending out of desperation

Dead red dems, my favourite cowboy game

[Hoover Attack]

They’re centrists, American politicians doesn’t have a functioning left wing

I read that many trade unions are increasingly aligned with the Republicans. Depending on the definition of left wing, if true*, that would increasingly make the GOP the party of the working class, and the Democrats the party of the liberal progressive class.


*I genuinely have no idea if it's true or not and have no intention of looking it up.

Exactly Dunners . I wonder if we're entering an era where it's not left V right anymore but up V down . Up being the elite , the establishment. Down , being the people . Like I said , it's only a thought .

It’s always been Up v Down.

The problem is most of those in the Down aren’t aware which side they’re on and who they’re against..

[Currywurst and Chips]

The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

[Hoover Attack]

You’re right. May and then Johnson were so much more ‘fit for office’, whatever that means.

This is what is meant by the unwillingness of the left to reflect. May and Johnson were indeed unfit for office, but that doesn’t deal with the criticisms of Corbyn.

And I suspect that if the left want to get anywhere near power again, they will absolutely need to properly engage with the criticisms of left wing figures that have actual substance.

Otherwise, the left will be actively playing its part in politics being done without them.

Which criticisms do you want to discuss first…. His racism? His love of terrrorists? His poppy being too small? His garden being poorly maintained? Not bowing his head at the right angle? His scruffy coat? Having a mental sibling?

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

Do you think that my issues with Corbyn are his poppy size?

How about for starters - him being truly awful as a communicator when trying to persuade anyone but the converted, when excellent communication skills are absolutely crucial to anyone hoping to overcome the best efforts of a hostile media?

[oxo]

Why don't the goodies have some policies that would actually excite and inspire people?

Corbyn’s policies, when put to voters, were very popular but the RW press was very successful at painting him personally as unfit for office cos he didn’t wear a tie or ate lentils or whatever

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/john-curtice-labo ... -policies/

If only he didnt love terrorists etc.

I don’t think he does love terrorists. He (correctly) recognises that many terror groups, as appalling as their acts are, have justifiable grievances, and is unwilling to pretend he doesn’t.

I think his stubbornness has been one of his biggest strengths and his biggest weakness. He’s the most principled politician for a generation, but he’s hopelessly lacking in pragmatism and unwilling to compromise.

By contrast, Starmer was willing to play the game to try and oust a party that is careening towards full-blown far-right lunacy, but either isn’t interested in addressing inequality or thinks trying to do so isn’t worth the risk. (I don’t think he’s interested personally, but who knows.)

[oxo]

The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

I like to think I wouldn’t do the same if I were in their position, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t

[Hoover Attack]

Do you think that my issues with Corbyn are his poppy size?

How about for starters - him being truly awful as a communicator when trying to persuade anyone but the converted, when excellent communication skills are absolutely crucial to anyone hoping to overcome the best efforts of a hostile media?

It was pretty small though, let’s be honest.

[Hoover Attack]

Corbyn’s policies, when put to voters, were very popular but the RW press was very successful at painting him personally as unfit for office cos he didn’t wear a tie or ate lentils or whatever

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/john-curtice-labo ... -policies/

If only he didnt love terrorists etc.

I don’t think he does love terrorists. He (correctly) recognises that many terror groups, as appalling as their acts are, have justifiable grievances, and is unwilling to pretend he doesn’t.

I think his stubbornness has been one of his biggest strengths and his biggest weakness. He’s the most principled politician for a generation, but he’s hopelessly lacking in pragmatism and unwilling to compromise.

By contrast, Starmer was willing to play the game to try and oust a party that is careening towards full-blown far-right lunacy, but either isn’t interested in addressing inequality or thinks trying to do so isn’t worth the risk. (I don’t think he’s interested personally, but who knows.)

For some reason, a four parter on the Rise of the Nazis was on the front screen of iPlayer last night, so I watched the first episode. They were saying how Hitler was totally uncompromising and unwilling to negotiate at first, and didn’t get a whiff of power until he changed tact.

I’ll probably watch another one tonight and let you know how he gets on.

[Hoover Attack]

The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

Agreed - but being aware it’s the ‘f*** you’ option is different to actively supporting someone.

[oxo]

The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

Agreed - but being aware it’s the ‘f*** you’ option is different to actively supporting someone.

If that person almost physically embodies ‘f*** you’ with respect to whoever it is you want to punish, it’s not that big a leap, I think.

To be clear I think it’s a horrible mistake, but I can sort of understand why large numbers of people voted for him. Goes back to Wally Banter’s post really

[faldO]

Millionaire and member of the professional elite class James O'Brien berates the American public for wanting to put food on the table rather than caring about "liberal democratic norms".

[oxo]

I suppose the other thing to remember is that the US is fundamentally a bit different to the UK — The American dream is so fundamental to the culture that they think anybody with billions of dollars is self evidently worthy of admiration

[oxo]

Millionaire and member of the professional elite class James O'Brien berates the American public for wanting to put food on the table rather than caring about "liberal democratic norms".

Yeah, just repeating phrases like ‘liberal democratic norms’ isn’t gonna win anyone over really is it?

[Currywurst and Chips]

Green Party sticking it to Trump with a word salad

[Currywurst and Chips]

The ol’ “They don’t know what’s best for them” “They didn’t know what they were voting for”

A staple defence mechanism every time the baddies win elections

Statements like this can be both deeply patronising and true though, can’t they?

Ultimately someone like Trump, Boris, or whoever is actually less interested than their opponents in improving the lives of people who have f*** all, but mainstream politicians have failed so badly on this front over the last few decades that millions of angry people are willing to press the ‘f*** you’ button and see what happens.

I like to think I wouldn’t do the same if I were in their position, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t

Patronising voters and calling them stupid is an excellent electoral strategy

[Dunners]

Green Party sticking it to Trump with a word salad

A few words of comfort to Green Party members is the right thing for her to do. After all, many of them will be sh*tting themselves right now through their manginas.

[Currywurst and Chips]

I hope it’s a regular feature she’ll perform and the next time an African country gets a warlord president who has promised to burn gays at the stake she’ll have a reassurance video to calm our fears.