Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:15 pm The vaccine IS stopping people getting Covid, that's why there are more cases amongst the unvaccinated. Obviously it's not 100 percent effective, but that's no reason to belittle it as useless, when it obviously isn't. No one needs to lose their job and livelihood unless they choose to by not taking the vaccine for no good reason

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:26 pm
Are we really risking losing valuable, hard working people who have probably seen some utterly horrible scenes in the last two years, and put the nhs under even more strain based on someone having two jabs 6 months ago that are no longer effective? Someone literally losing their job and livelihoods over something that isn’t stopping anyone get covid?

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:15 pm The vaccine IS stopping people getting Covid, that's why there are more cases amongst the unvaccinated. Obviously it's not 100 percent effective, but that's no reason to belittle it as useless, when it obviously isn't. No one needs to lose their job and livelihood unless they choose to by not taking the vaccine for no good reason

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:54 pm
What if they fear an adverse reaction to the vaccine?

BoniO wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:05 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:17 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:48 pm

And what about the personal freedom rights of those who are being prevented from getting hospital treatments for their own non Covid illnesses and diseases, held up by around the very high proportion of NHS ICU Covid patients who are not fully vaccinated against the Covid virus ? I wonder how many of these anti-vaxxers would refuse having the vaccine if they faced the prospect of non Covid treatment if they were proved to have refused the option of the vaccine ? Other countries are not such a ''Soft touch'' as the UK is. For just one instance, in Greece people over 60 years of age will soon have to start paying a 100 Euros a month fine if they have refused the vaccine, this is being enforced due to the large amount of un-vaccinated over 60s being admitted to hospital suffereing from Covid.

See below for just one example of this !

80% of patients admitted to Intensive Care Units in north east London in December not fully vaccinated'
https://northeastlondonccg.nhs.uk/news/ ... accinated/

Between 1 December and 31 December 2021, 124 patients with Covid-19 were admitted to intensive care units (ICU) across north east London (NEL). Of these, 80.6% (100) were not fully vaccinated (with 2 doses).

ICUs play an important role in hospitals, including looking after patients undergoing major surgery, for conditions such as cancer and heart disease.
Parjam Zolfaghari, a Consultant in Intensive Care Medicine and Anaesthesia at Barts Health NHS Trust said: “A considerable amount of resource is needed to treat patients in ICU, and those with Covid-19 are no exception. On average, a person with Covid-19 stays in an ICU bed for three times longer than ICU patients who are admitted with other conditions. The ongoing admission of patients with Covid-19 to critical care units is impacting on already stretched staff and, causing sustained pressure on services across north east London.”
He continues: “This clearly shows that getting two doses of a vaccine is the best way to reduce your chances of becoming seriously ill with Covid-19 and ending up in hospital. The individuals currently in our ICUs with Covid-19 are unlikely to have been admitted to intensive care if they had been fully vaccinated.”

You know there are 70000 nhs staff unvaccinated dont you Sid ?

Not doubting you Tuffers but that's crazy. I'd like to know the reasons why these NHS staff have chosen not to be vaccinated. Perhaps targeted education could then help to convince many to get the jab.

Thor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:57 am We all know covid is more dangerous when you have other health issues.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:50 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:26 pm
Are we really risking losing valuable, hard working people who have probably seen some utterly horrible scenes in the last two years, and put the nhs under even more strain based on someone having two jabs 6 months ago that are no longer effective? Someone literally losing their job and livelihoods over something that isn’t stopping anyone get covid?

Nah, I've got to call you out on this.

1. We're not risking losing valuable, hard working people. The Venn diagram of anti-vaxers, and the kind of people most companies would actual love to get rid of is almost a complete circle. Think of the usual argumentative thickos who are always disruptive and/or lazy and/or toxic and/or f*cking too much hard work. It's very remarkable just how often they also happen to be the dinlows who refuse the vaccine because of "freedom".

And how do I know this? There’s loads of research on this, especially from the USA where private companies have been going down the vaccine mandate road for a while now. If even recently had this presented to me as my company is considering it's future vaccine policy.
This research is being widely shared by leadership teams across the world and we're rubbing our hands with glee that these f*ckwits are going to give us all our Christmases at once.

2. The vaccines are effective, just to varying degrees. But no matter, they're still more effective than NO F*CKING VACCINE!

3. And then there's this: "something that isn’t stopping anyone get covid." Wait, what? Why does this keep getting thrown out there as if it's some kind of valid counter argument? And why do the people that say this keep ignoring what they are told?

Being FULLY vaccinated helps reduce your risk of suffering from severe disease. That means two things. It reduces your risk of death. And it reduces the risk that you put the health services under avoidable pressure, which then puts other people at risk. Your freedom to not be vaccinated is you saying "f*ck you" to other people who may come to depend on health services.

Also, the vaccine does reduce the risk of you transmitting the virus to others. Multiplied over the population this can have an incredible accumulative effect. It will result in a lower rate of severe disease, death and undue pressure on health services.

Therefore, choosing to be unvaccinated, because freedom, means exactly the opposite. Across the population it means higher rates of severe disease. Higher rates of death. Higher demand on health services. Higher absenteeism. Higher f*cking everything.

So if sacking these c*nts puts the NHS under more pressure, then fine. Because, left to their own imbecilic devices, they and their ilk will do a lot worse.

Stowaway wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:51 pm As I’ve mentioned before, my ex is the clinical manager of the biggest ICU in London (and she’s a nurse, not an office type. She runs the place while on the ward, wearing scrubs like everyone else). Her rule is that everyone on her unit has to be double vaccinated and boosted. No exceptions. If you’re not, you don’t even come into the unit. That includes relatives, porters, cleaners, doctors and consultants.

Is it legal? I don’t know. But it’s her rule. She’s had literally hundreds of patients die over the last two years, and several staff, and she takes personal responsibility for each and every one. I make her right.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:41 am

Stowaway wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:51 pm As I’ve mentioned before, my ex is the clinical manager of the biggest ICU in London (and she’s a nurse, not an office type. She runs the place while on the ward, wearing scrubs like everyone else). Her rule is that everyone on her unit has to be double vaccinated and boosted. No exceptions. If you’re not, you don’t even come into the unit. That includes relatives, porters, cleaners, doctors and consultants.

Is it legal? I don’t know. But it’s her rule. She’s had literally hundreds of patients die over the last two years, and several staff, and she takes personal responsibility for each and every one. I make her right.

It’s obviously not legal.

If she was more interested in keeping her ward covid free, she’d be better insisting on a negative LFT before allowing admission rather than this symbolic Vaxxers Only rule.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:08 am If you think she’s that great, you should marry her.

40 years of wiping arses and taking temperatures does not make you more qualified than anyone else in anything other than wiping arses and taking temperatures.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:03 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:54 pm

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:15 pm The vaccine IS stopping people getting Covid, that's why there are more cases amongst the unvaccinated. Obviously it's not 100 percent effective, but that's no reason to belittle it as useless, when it obviously isn't. No one needs to lose their job and livelihood unless they choose to by not taking the vaccine for no good reason

What if they fear an adverse reaction to the vaccine?

Is that a good reason? It's not undocumented in the medical publications.

It is strange how this is overlooked.

There is a risk of illness or death from taking the vaccine.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:42 am Depends on your age and which vaccine you’re talking about.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:49 am It also doesn't make much sense considering the Tory's are abandoning all of the rules the make the strain on the NHS less. You have to be consistent.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:03 am

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:42 am Depends on your age and which vaccine you’re talking about.

I don't disagree that the vaccine may not be a 100% percent safe, there are a few examples when it hasn't been, but please quote one example, age and vaccine, when the vaccine is more dangerous than catching Covid.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:08 am If you think she’s that great, you should marry her.

40 years of wiping arses and taking temperatures does not make you more qualified than anyone else in anything other than wiping arses and taking temperatures.

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:03 am

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:42 am Depends on your age and which vaccine you’re talking about.

I don't disagree that the vaccine may not be a 100% percent safe, there are a few examples when it hasn't been, but please quote one example, age and vaccine, when the vaccine is more dangerous than catching Covid.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:51 am How many people have died from vaccination? Evidence please.

And your evidence must show people died 'from' vaccination, not just with vaccination. Also, anyone with an underlying health condition doesn't count.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:03 pm

Chelmsford Swimmer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:03 am

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:42 am Depends on your age and which vaccine you’re talking about.

I don't disagree that the vaccine may not be a 100% percent safe, there are a few examples when it hasn't been, but please quote one example, age and vaccine, when the vaccine is more dangerous than catching Covid.

The dead people.

Of course the percentages are minute, but if you’re the 0.01% or whatever it is, that’s scant consolation. It’s 100% to you.