The Unofficial and Independent Leyton Orient Message Board
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But true. Some people ant handle the truth. But then I come to expect such garbage from you, it’s all your tiny mind is capable of, so I tend to ignore it as in anyway serious. I just laugh at you, you poor sad person.
No, it's not true. Championship/Premiership football is not the norm. Championship/L1 was the norm. I think you might have missed that link I put up for you so I'll c & p it for youdOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:11 pmBut true. Some people ant handle the truth. But then I come to expect such garbage from you, it’s all your tiny mind is capable of, so I tend to ignore it as in anyway serious. I just laugh at you, you poor sad person.
I fully respect our past - I even saw some of it. But that’s what it is. Saying that the ‘Championship is our natural level’ or words to that effect isn’t respecting the past, it’s living in it (or, at least, wilfully ignoring the last 35 years).dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:01 pmIt’s hugely insulting to say people live in the past. Our history is a major factor for the club, because we have one and it should be celebrated. But that is not living in the past. I doubt any of us have delusions of playing in the Prem. I have repeatedly voiced my opinion that L1 is our level these days. Respect our past and accept our future. But that sort of thought process is beyond some thickos sadly.Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:48 amUnlike the posters on here to be living in the past... The days when a club like Orient could establish itself in the second tier are long gone. We missed the gravy train and we’re hamstrung by the abomination of a housing estate Hearn saddled us with. We don’t have a remotely level playing field to compete on and anyone who thinks that we can do so is deluding themselves with misty-eyed nostalgia.
KMT
Ambition is not living in the past but hoping for a better future.
I’ll repeat for the hard of thinking and for the umpteenth time, it’s unlikely we could sustain Teir 2 football without massive investment so our level now is probably tier 3/ L1Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:58 pmI fully respect our past - I even saw some of it. But that’s what it is. Saying that the ‘Championship is our natural level’ or words to that effect isn’t respecting the past, it’s living in it (or, at least, wilfully ignoring the last 35 years).dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:01 pmIt’s hugely insulting to say people live in the past. Our history is a major factor for the club, because we have one and it should be celebrated. But that is not living in the past. I doubt any of us have delusions of playing in the Prem. I have repeatedly voiced my opinion that L1 is our level these days. Respect our past and accept our future. But that sort of thought process is beyond some thickos sadly.Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:48 am
Unlike the posters on here to be living in the past... The days when a club like Orient could establish itself in the second tier are long gone. We missed the gravy train and we’re hamstrung by the abomination of a housing estate Hearn saddled us with. We don’t have a remotely level playing field to compete on and anyone who thinks that we can do so is deluding themselves with misty-eyed nostalgia.
KMT
Ambition is not living in the past but hoping for a better future.
It’s my dearest footballing wish to one day see us back in the second tier - and it’s achievable, as plenty of smaller clubs have shown - but without wholesale change to the investment and infrastructure of the club, it will never be sustainable.
So let’s say again. I started coming to Brisbane road towards the beginning of that list. For 22 of the first 25 years of my coming to Brisbane Road I enjoyed Championship level football. For me, at that time, Championship football was the norm. Not complicated really. Of course since then the decline set in as I know but that don’t detract from the fact that for 25 years Championship football was the norm.CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:38 pmNo, it's not true. Championship/Premiership football is not the norm. Championship/L1 was the norm. I think you might have missed that link I put up for you so I'll c & p it for you
1946–47 Div 3S
1947–48 Div 3S
1948–49 Div 3S
1949–50 Div 3S
1950–51 Div 3S
1951–52 Div 3S
1952–53 Div 3S
1953–54 Div 3S
1954–55 Div 3S
1955–56 Div 3S
1956–57 Div 2
1957–58 Div 2
1958–59 Div 2
1959–60 Div 2
1960–61 Div 2
1961–62 Div 2
1962–63 Div 1
1963–64 Div 2
1964–65 Div 2
1965–66 Div 2
1966–67 Div 3
1967–68 Div 3
1968–69 Div 3
1969–70 Div 3
1970–71 Div 2
1971–72 Div 2
1972–73 Div 2
1973–74 Div 2
1974–75 Div 2
1975–76 Div 2
1976–77 Div 2
1977–78 Div 2
1978–79 Div 2
1979–80 Div 2
1980–81 Div 2
1981–82 Div 2
1982–83 Div 3
1983–84 Div 3
1984–85 Div 3
For nearly 25 years bar a few seasons we did belong there. We were there. That is a fact no matter how you spin it.Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:47 pm Although we spent the whole of the 70's in the 'championship'; we were punching above our weight throughout.
Numerous attendances of under 3,000 in our final season (81/82), confirm this.
Granted it's a nice notion that we somehow 'belong' there, and I wish we were, but a club only really 'belongs' where it is in that moment.
If you'd said Championship level was the norm, I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you. Of course that was the norm.dOh Nut wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:48 pmSo let’s say again. I started coming to Brisbane road towards the beginning of that list. For 22 of the first 25 years of my coming to Brisbane Road I enjoyed Championship level football. For me, at that time, Championship football was the norm. Not complicated really. Of course since then the decline set in as I know but that don’t detract from the fact that for 25 years Championship football was the norm.CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:38 pmNo, it's not true. Championship/Premiership football is not the norm. Championship/L1 was the norm. I think you might have missed that link I put up for you so I'll c & p it for you
1946–47 Div 3S
1947–48 Div 3S
1948–49 Div 3S
1949–50 Div 3S
1950–51 Div 3S
1951–52 Div 3S
1952–53 Div 3S
1953–54 Div 3S
1954–55 Div 3S
1955–56 Div 3S
1956–57 Div 2
1957–58 Div 2
1958–59 Div 2
1959–60 Div 2
1960–61 Div 2
1961–62 Div 2
1962–63 Div 1
1963–64 Div 2
1964–65 Div 2
1965–66 Div 2
1966–67 Div 3
1967–68 Div 3
1968–69 Div 3
1969–70 Div 3
1970–71 Div 2
1971–72 Div 2
1972–73 Div 2
1973–74 Div 2
1974–75 Div 2
1975–76 Div 2
1976–77 Div 2
1977–78 Div 2
1978–79 Div 2
1979–80 Div 2
1980–81 Div 2
1981–82 Div 2
1982–83 Div 3
1983–84 Div 3
1984–85 Div 3
It was the norm during THAT 25 year period. Are you too dull to understand that point or are you just being stupid. If we were talking about a couple of years that would be differed, but 25.
It was also a fact that Leyton Orient held the record, at that time, for being the club with the longest unbroken run in the championship 12 consecutive seasons. If that’s not the norm at that time for Orient then what does it say for many others.
So stop being stupid
Orient (including Clapton Orient) were in Division 2 (Tier 2) for over 40 seasonsone o in huntingdon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:08 pm So out of 72 years we were in div 2 for 21 of them, more accurate to say we were a div 3 or 4 club for over fifty years.
My calculation was based on the list shown above since 1946/47RientO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:15 pmOrient (including Clapton Orient) were in Division 2 (Tier 2) for over 40 seasonsone o in huntingdon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:08 pm So out of 72 years we were in div 2 for 21 of them, more accurate to say we were a div 3 or 4 club for over fifty years.
1905 - 1929 (20 seasons), 1956- 1962 (6), 1963 - 1966 (3), 1970-1982 (12).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_L ... C._seasons
What is your source?eppinggas wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:38 pm There is a pretty close correlation between average league position and average attendances. And that's where Clubs tend to settle.
Looking at the "50 year table" - Orient rank 63rd. (Bristol Rovers 55th).
Looking at the average attendances over the last 100 years - Orient rank 59th (8,080). Bristol Rovers a 52nd (9,686).
I'd expect Orient to get back to their "natural position" in the next 1-3 years. Without some serious investment it is getting increasingly difficult for an 'Orient' or a 'Bristol Rovers' to bridge that gap to the Championship.
See you in Div 1 soon. Hopefully we won't pass you on the way down.
OK, so Orient have always been at the bottom of the barrel and the barrel just got bigger :-)OyinbO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:16 pm The football league only became a four-tiered affair in 1958. Using our historical record from prior to this date in support of any argument about our "natural level" should recognise that there were fewer divisions to be in. With the exception of two spells (mid-50s to mid 60s, and the 1970s) we've been bumping around the nether regions of the league... it's just that it's got bigger as the years have gone on.
Other than when dohy started watching us and we were a Premiership sideRientO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:49 pmOK, so Orient have always been at the bottom of the barrel and the barrel just got bigger :-)OyinbO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:16 pm The football league only became a four-tiered affair in 1958. Using our historical record from prior to this date in support of any argument about our "natural level" should recognise that there were fewer divisions to be in. With the exception of two spells (mid-50s to mid 60s, and the 1970s) we've been bumping around the nether regions of the league... it's just that it's got bigger as the years have gone on.
We were for a season. Plus 22 seasons in tier 2. Not too bad was it.CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:11 pmOther than when dohy started watching us and we were a Premiership sideRientO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:49 pm.OK, so Orient have always been at the bottom of the barrel and the barrel just got bigger :-)OyinbO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:16 pm The football league only became a four-tiered affair in 1958. Using our historical record from prior to this date in support of any argument about our "natural level" should recognise that there were fewer divisions to be in. With the exception of two spells (mid-50s to mid 60s, and the 1970s) we've been bumping around the nether regions of the league... it's just that it's got bigger as the years have gone on.
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:07 amWe were for a season. Plus 22 seasons in tier 2. Not too bad was it. Back then 92 league clubs like now just called div 1 2 3 and 4.CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:11 pmOther than when dohy started watching us and we were a Premiership side
It was just the norm mate, playing all that top flight football.dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:07 amWe were for a season. Plus 22 seasons in tier 2. Not too bad was it.CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:11 pmOther than when dohy started watching us and we were a Premiership side
I just checked my source and it's a year out of date... https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... nd-arsenal.RientO wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:04 pmWhat is your source?eppinggas wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:38 pm There is a pretty close correlation between average league position and average attendances. And that's where Clubs tend to settle.
Looking at the "50 year table" - Orient rank 63rd. (Bristol Rovers 55th).
Looking at the average attendances over the last 100 years - Orient rank 59th (8,080). Bristol Rovers a 52nd (9,686).
I'd expect Orient to get back to their "natural position" in the next 1-3 years. Without some serious investment it is getting increasingly difficult for an 'Orient' or a 'Bristol Rovers' to bridge that gap to the Championship.
See you in Div 1 soon. Hopefully we won't pass you on the way down.
I was looking at this http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/engprof-alltime.html
and saw Orient are 48th in all time table though probably dropped a couple of places due to being out of the league. Also Orient have over 100 seasons so the record isn't that impressive. Did note there was a small club in east London lurking in 64th place.