Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Orientnil wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:40 pm Three wins in a row! 'Think we deserved the points but only just... could've drawn or lost more than once. What we have now is a very rare commodity at Orient - a manager who has his share of luck. Ain't it grand?

Jobi also knows how to set a team up and make the best of the players available to him in the squad.
Jobi and Danny Senda are a good team and let us hope the better form ( and luck ! ) continues !

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:31 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:56 pm

MungOgogo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:57 pm

So maybe STOP bringing it up !

Like others on this forum, I take no instructions from anyone as to what to say and what not to say and likewise I would never instruct anyone else as to what they should or shouldn't write in their comments.
Seems though like some of the Ross cheer leaders on here took it hard to accept him going and are still fighting his cause.
Lastly I notice your assumed name only joined a few weeks ago yet already pitching in like a long time regular.............say no more !

Personally Sid I wouldn’t rise to it, I’ve only been on here a short while and already worked out that there are a few on here that would argue with a corpse in a phone box just for a reaction, sure we are all have a point of view but some just take it to the next level for what ever reason. We are all entitled to our opinion and right or wrong. I’m with you on Ross but I appreciate that others liked him.

Yes I have one who follows most of my comments, I just blocked him, so ignore him.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:36 am

MungOgogo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:52 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:31 pm

Personally Sid I wouldn’t rise to it, I’ve only been on here a short while and already worked out that there are a few on here that would argue with a corpse in a phone box just for a reaction, sure we are all have a point of view but some just take it to the next level for what ever reason. We are all entitled to our opinion and right or wrong. I’m with you on Ross but I appreciate that others liked him.

No arguments from me .
Just pointing out that Sid was mentioning about Ross & Jobi & then later says time to move on .
Ross is gone a while now & yet is still part of the conversation . How is that moving on .

The King is Dead , Long Live the King !

Glad that you once considered Ross as your King !

I didnt . Its an old English tradition Sid . When the king dies you dont dwell on the old King
You move forwards . Stiff Upper Lip old boy .

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Jobi also knows how to set a team up and make the best of the players available to him in the squad.
Jobi and Danny Senda are a good team and let us hope the better form ( and luck ! ) continues !

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

I think the argument is more that we can’t play 4-4-2 because we don’t have two ‘traditional’ CMs that can defend and tackle and pass and score the odd goal.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Jobi also knows how to set a team up and make the best of the players available to him in the squad.
Jobi and Danny Senda are a good team and let us hope the better form ( and luck ! ) continues !

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Yes when you go on these coaching courses you have to adhere to what the instructor asked you to do and there’s no room for imagination or to do something different. Bit like a driving test really but in there defence they only want to see if you can do the job they set out.What you do afterwards is down to the individual. Perhaps some on here have passed there badge?so might have an idea what I’m going on about. As for some on here that just want to argue (for what ever reason) I have no time for but most have a good knowledge of football have good points of view and know Orient well

I find it difficult to understand how a team can’t play 442 mr hotdogs, I know your point about the 2 central midfielders is a valid one however IMO a decent squad should be able to adapt to most formations but maybe there lies the problem?

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Jobi also knows how to set a team up and make the best of the players available to him in the squad.
Jobi and Danny Senda are a good team and let us hope the better form ( and luck ! ) continues !

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Having done a few coaching courses (abeit a decade ago) I don't buy that. I think coaches of a lesser ability adopt a preferred playing system (and style) and then do not have enough imagination to see beyond it when situations demand it. Do that for a sustained period and you might end up with players or a squad that suit the chosen system. There's nothing I see in our make up that stops the O's playing as badly in a 442 as they do in a 433.

FWIW I don't think we did play a 433 Saturday. Kemp was making every attempt to play in an advanced central midfield role. Can't quite be sure what formation it was because a PC is too one dimensional to be sure.

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Yes when you go on these coaching courses you have to adhere to what the instructor asked you to do and there’s no room for imagination or to do something different. Bit like a driving test really but in there defence they only want to see if you can do the job they set out.What you do afterwards is down to the individual. Perhaps some on here have passed there badge?so might have an idea what I’m going on about. As for some on here that just want to argue (for what ever reason) I have no time for but most have a good knowledge of football have good points of view and know Orient well

Unless youve had a stint at Largs , i cant take you seriously .

LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:58 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Having done a few coaching courses (abeit a decade ago) I don't buy that. I think coaches of a lesser ability adopt a preferred playing system (and style) and then do not have enough imagination to see beyond it when situations demand it. Do that for a sustained period and you might end up with players or a squad that suit the chosen system. There's nothing I see in our make up that stops the O's playing as badly in a 442 as they do in a 433.

FWIW I don't think we did play a 433 Saturday. Kemp was making every attempt to play in an advanced central midfield role. Can't quite be sure what formation it was because a PC is too one dimensional to be sure.

I think it is a 4-2-3-1 with a standard back four, then something on the lines of Cisse and Clay as twin central holding midfielders, then Kemp as an advanced central midfielder and Wilkinson on the right side of this advanced 3 midfielders and Brophy on the left. Johnson playing on his own as a central striker. I would sooner Johnson had a Matt Harrold/ Mickey Bullock/Joe Mayo type target man alongside him with Johnson feeding off him in a 4-4-2 formation. Anyway, things are getting better so see how the team evolves !

Now your talking Joe Mayo, Mickey (am I offside) Bullock. I don’t like 433 ( but wouldn’t rule it completely out) because you end up playing to narrow (3 in the middle) leaving the flanks exposed or playing a little wider leaving the middle exsposed.Jobi seems to have addressed this to his credit.As to having coaches of a lesser ability in a club and not being able to change well I think they have just got rid of one,but we don’t want to bring that up again do we Mungo LOL

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Yes when you go on these coaching courses you have to adhere to what the instructor asked you to do and there’s no room for imagination or to do something different. Bit like a driving test really but in there defence they only want to see if you can do the job they set out.What you do afterwards is down to the individual. Perhaps some on here have passed there badge?so might have an idea what I’m going on about. As for some on here that just want to argue (for what ever reason) I have no time for but most have a good knowledge of football have good points of view and know Orient well

From my late teenage years, I read many books on various football tactics dating from the 1920s upwards. When you run your own teams, you can evolve your own tactics to suit the players you have available and also the different styles of teams you may meet. Some teams may have had a key player that I would put a tight man to man marker on. In one cup game it necessitated using the 5-4-1 formation used by the Inter Milan coach Helenio Herrera in the 1960s. We played a 3 central defenders with one acting as a sweeper, stifled the opposition in the midfield and reduced them to putting in long balls which our central defenders could have dealt with all day, let their back 4 push up to the halfway line, and our very fast centre forward got 4 breakaway goals goals in a brilliant 4-1 victory !

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:57 am

Yes agreed he’s been quite cleaver considering this team can only play 433 apparently

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Yes when you go on these coaching courses you have to adhere to what the instructor asked you to do and there’s no room for imagination or to do something different. Bit like a driving test really but in there defence they only want to see if you can do the job they set out.What you do afterwards is down to the individual. Perhaps some on here have passed there badge?so might have an idea what I’m going on about. As for some on here that just want to argue (for what ever reason) I have no time for but most have a good knowledge of football have good points of view and know Orient well

From your posts and words you use I’d say you took the old prelim badge followed by the full one, am I right?

The trouble back then was you had to swallow the Charles Hughes manual and implement what he said you had to do otherwise you’d never pass your badges. It still goes on today as the course is set up for you to attain a level which is based on the classroom teachings, on field work etc. And if you don’t follow it well, you won’t pass. Don’t matter how good you might be you have to follow the syllabus, like in school before you can get your gcse.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:53 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Yes when you go on these coaching courses you have to adhere to what the instructor asked you to do and there’s no room for imagination or to do something different. Bit like a driving test really but in there defence they only want to see if you can do the job they set out.What you do afterwards is down to the individual. Perhaps some on here have passed there badge?so might have an idea what I’m going on about. As for some on here that just want to argue (for what ever reason) I have no time for but most have a good knowledge of football have good points of view and know Orient well

From your posts and words you use I’d say you took the old prelim badge followed by the full one, am I right?

The trouble back then was you had to swallow the Charles Hughes manual and implement what he said you had to do otherwise you’d never pass your badges. It still goes on today as the course is set up for you to attain a level which is based on the classroom teachings, on field work etc. And if you don’t follow it well, you won’t pass. Don’t matter how good you might be you have to follow the syllabus, like in school before you can get your gcse.

UEFA B

On reflection Thor you were partly right I did the prelim then went on to do UEFB and what you went on to was true too.

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:53 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Yes what a load of nonsense that was ! From what I understand, the thinking previously was that with the players available to him, he could only play 4-3-3 ! Seems like these people go on FA coaching courses and have all the flare and imagination knocked out of them, that is if they had it in the first place !! Thinking on your feet and changing tactics and formations according to the different teams you are going to play, also when you need a different game plan whilst the game is ongoing, its all part of being a good football manager. Also the ability to spot a good up and coming player and the foresight to be able to use a player to good effect in a position he has not played in before, in fact a case of necessity when you only have a small squad to choose from.

Yes when you go on these coaching courses you have to adhere to what the instructor asked you to do and there’s no room for imagination or to do something different. Bit like a driving test really but in there defence they only want to see if you can do the job they set out.What you do afterwards is down to the individual. Perhaps some on here have passed there badge?so might have an idea what I’m going on about. As for some on here that just want to argue (for what ever reason) I have no time for but most have a good knowledge of football have good points of view and know Orient well

From your posts and words you use I’d say you took the old prelim badge followed by the full one, am I right?

The trouble back then was you had to swallow the Charles Hughes manual and implement what he said you had to do otherwise you’d never pass your badges. It still goes on today as the course is set up for you to attain a level which is based on the classroom teachings, on field work etc. And if you don’t follow it well, you won’t pass. Don’t matter how good you might be you have to follow the syllabus, like in school before you can get your gcse.

Some of the most brilliant footballers of the past, learnt their ball control and dribbling skills by playing street or playground football, kicking cans or tennis balls around, or in the case of the many brilliant Brazilian players like Pele, Garrincha etc, many honed their wonderful close control ball skills from a young age by playing beach football. Too much coaching can take natural talent away and discourage young players from the old fashioned skills of dribbling the ball and going on a run taking on players etc. Instead they are drilled to keep team possession of the ball by non stop passing from one to the other thus a slow build up and endless sideways and backwards passing movements. Thus the demise of ball playing wingers like George Best, Peter Thompson, Stanley Mathews etc to name but a few of the great wingers of days gone by. The times I have watched kids games where the youngsters are being instructed to pass the ball and get shouted at if they lose possession of the ball. Youngsters should just be left to enjoy and explore the game, develop their own skills and learn to enjoy the thrill of attempting to dribble the ball past their opponents.

Why does Thor always seem to get on so well with certain other borders ?

Monkeyboy & Thor
Oiram & Thor
Sid Bishop & Thor & 1 or 2 others .

LittleRon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:30 pm Why does Thor always seem to get on so well with certain other borders ?

Monkeyboy & Thor
Oiram & Thor
Sid Bishop & Thor & 1 or 2 others .

Well I get on ok in football discussions with both Monkeyboy and Thor, but disagree with Thor on other things like his views on Covid Vaccination. conspiracy theories etc. If you are thinking that all the names you quoted are the one and same person, well I can assure you that speaking for myself I do not go into ( as some do on this forum ! ) having multiple accounts where they back up mates who they know in person or even reply to themselves via different accounts. I have just the one account and do not know anyone on this forum in person other than by exchanging views on the many different threads that are discussed on this forum !

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:20 pm Some of the most brilliant footballers of the past, learnt their ball control and dribbling skills by playing street or playground football, kicking cans or tennis balls around, or in the case of the many brilliant Brazilian players like Pele, Garrincha etc, many honed their wonderful close control ball skills from a young age by playing beach football. Too much coaching can take natural talent away and discourage young players from the old fashioned skills of dribbling the ball and going on a run taking on players etc. Instead they are drilled to keep team possession of the ball by non stop passing from one to the other thus a slow build up and endless sideways and backwards passing movements. Thus the demise of ball playing wingers like George Best, Peter Thompson, Stanley Mathews etc to name but a few of the great wingers of days gone by. The times I have watched kids games where the youngsters are being instructed to pass the ball and get shouted at if they lose possession of the ball. Youngsters should just be left to enjoy and explore the game, develop their own skills and learn to enjoy the thrill of attempting to dribble the ball past their opponents.

I think you're being disingenuous Sid, there's been hundreds of amazing ball playing wingers since the days of Best and Matthews.

True ADZ but just sometimes coaches can destroy individualism, I watched Joe Cole coming through the ranks at West Ham and at the time he was going to be the next Paul Gascoigne but Harry Redknapp basically coached it out of him by constantly putting him on the bench and making him more of a team player.Trust me if he had left him alone he would have been twice the player he was, admittedly he became an international but he could have been even better. Thus the he move to Chelsea in the end. I believe things go in circles nowadays it’s all about the short passing game especially young kids,pace and first touch.However look at some of your best players over the years like Paul Scholes and Steven Gerrard who could hit a ball 40/50 yards right to there feet. That’s not coached any more. As for littleRons comment perhaps we are a little older or just on the same wavelength?? I think the younger ones on here have a different view point and rightly so and good luck to them . Things move on like mungo said

LittleRon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:30 pm Why does Thor always seem to get on so well with certain other borders ?

Monkeyboy & Thor
Oiram & Thor
Sid Bishop & Thor & 1 or 2 others .

It was better in the older days when aliases like these disagreed with each other. The sponge v shrek stuff springs to mind.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:01 am

LittleRon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:30 pm Why does Thor always seem to get on so well with certain other borders ?

Monkeyboy & Thor
Oiram & Thor
Sid Bishop & Thor & 1 or 2 others .

It was better in the older days when aliases like these disagreed with each other. The sponge v shrek stuff springs to mind.

Ask Admin if I am an alias on this forum, no way, cannot be bothered with kids stuff like that !

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:06 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:20 pm Some of the most brilliant footballers of the past, learnt their ball control and dribbling skills by playing street or playground football, kicking cans or tennis balls around, or in the case of the many brilliant Brazilian players like Pele, Garrincha etc, many honed their wonderful close control ball skills from a young age by playing beach football. Too much coaching can take natural talent away and discourage young players from the old fashioned skills of dribbling the ball and going on a run taking on players etc. Instead they are drilled to keep team possession of the ball by non stop passing from one to the other thus a slow build up and endless sideways and backwards passing movements. Thus the demise of ball playing wingers like George Best, Peter Thompson, Stanley Mathews etc to name but a few of the great wingers of days gone by. The times I have watched kids games where the youngsters are being instructed to pass the ball and get shouted at if they lose possession of the ball. Youngsters should just be left to enjoy and explore the game, develop their own skills and learn to enjoy the thrill of attempting to dribble the ball past their opponents.

I think you're being disingenuous Sid, there's been hundreds of amazing ball playing wingers since the days of Best and Matthews.

How many in recent years can you think of ? Paul Gascoigne before he got his ACL knee injury was one of the last breed of English players who had amazing ball control. flair and dribbling skills. As Monkey Boy states, more and more individual skills are being coached out of young players and replaced with the short passing mantra, constantly being told to keep the ball on the move, multiple passing leading to too much negative and boring to watch possession style of football.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:47 am

Adz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:06 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:20 pm Some of the most brilliant footballers of the past, learnt their ball control and dribbling skills by playing street or playground football, kicking cans or tennis balls around, or in the case of the many brilliant Brazilian players like Pele, Garrincha etc, many honed their wonderful close control ball skills from a young age by playing beach football. Too much coaching can take natural talent away and discourage young players from the old fashioned skills of dribbling the ball and going on a run taking on players etc. Instead they are drilled to keep team possession of the ball by non stop passing from one to the other thus a slow build up and endless sideways and backwards passing movements. Thus the demise of ball playing wingers like George Best, Peter Thompson, Stanley Mathews etc to name but a few of the great wingers of days gone by. The times I have watched kids games where the youngsters are being instructed to pass the ball and get shouted at if they lose possession of the ball. Youngsters should just be left to enjoy and explore the game, develop their own skills and learn to enjoy the thrill of attempting to dribble the ball past their opponents.

I think you're being disingenuous Sid, there's been hundreds of amazing ball playing wingers since the days of Best and Matthews.

How many in recent years can you think of ? Paul Gascoigne before he got his ACL knee injury was one of the last breed of English players who had amazing ball control. flair and dribbling skills. As Monkey Boy states, more and more individual skills are being coached out of young players and replaced with the short passing mantra, constantly being told to keep the ball on the move, multiple passing leading to too much negative and boring to watch possession style of football.

Careful Sid we will be accused of being brothers soon but do I care...nah the only people I care about are close friends and family. Don’t mind in the slightest if people disagree with me that’s there right no probs, but when they get personal? However I fully agree with your comments above wholeheartedly.I think Southgate and Grealish is a fair example, although Grealish isn’t in the Gascoigne league he’s a bit of a Maverick compared to some and that’s why Southgate didn’t pick him until recently under pressure from the press and public. I still believe he wouldn’t of picked him now but for the pressure. They just don’t like individualism so much now days

There was a spate of wingers 10 years ago that made their career out of being able to dribble with nothing else in their game, Wright Philips, Walcott, etc. Players are much better now, look at grealish, foden, sancho, sterling, etc who can do it all. There was definitely mistakes made with coaching in the past 20 years, but with the quality of young players coming through at the moment I think they must be getting a lot right. When was the last time we had 4 world class right backs? Not in my lifetime.

Southgate will probably kill all the good work though

Think those players you mentioned ADZ Walcott ect only had pace and not much else IMO they couldn’t cross a ball to save there lives. As for Southgate don’t get me started on him,there will be a lot of England supporters very disappointed in the coming competitions. It’s history repeating itself. It’s Sven all over again. We have the best squad of young players we’ve had for years and the worst manager. Bit like the O’s and Embleton only we don’t have the squad.