Wage Cap

[gshaw]

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns

They were rather disingenuous with my question, the media guy changed it as he was reading it out.

Instead of it being a question about whether we'd keep young players on pro contracts to avoid losing them cheap it was flipped into saying what we already know i.e. that academy players don't count towards the budget (but can then be signed cheaply by bigger clubs under EPPP)

The home grown discount is interesting if that's actually a thing.

[tuffers#1]

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns

They were rather disingenuous with my question, the media guy changed it as he was reading it out.

Instead of it being a question about whether we'd keep young players on pro contracts to avoid losing them cheap it was flipped into saying what we already know i.e. that academy players don't count towards the budget (but can then be signed cheaply by bigger clubs under EPPP)

The home grown discount is interesting if that's actually a thing.

I didnt know it was your question .
I noticed the "flip" too .

What i wasnt sure of & am still none the wiser to, is if how & when have the rules been
finalised with regard to the Budgets .

[Still wrong]

Yes but that was before budgets & isnt really relevant anymore .

Also Brexit means young foreign players will not find it easy to a way into the uk
As they wont meet new rules of appearances or international .

Depending how long the budgeting lasts could see things become very different
For everybody outside of the EPL

It won’t stop clubs nicking our best players for peanuts.
To me it’s a nonsense continuing with it.
It’s not as if we have bought anybody through in the last 10 years that has got in big money.

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

[tuffers#1]

It won’t stop clubs nicking our best players for peanuts.
To me it’s a nonsense continuing with it.
It’s not as if we have bought anybody through in the last 10 years that has got in big money.

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

Is Football only about Profit ?

[Still wrong]

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

Is Football only about Profit ?

At our level yes.
Unless you want to rely on a millionaire to put his hand in his pocket for ever and a day.
Trouble is they either get bored or they run out of money.
How much money have we got in from home grown players in the last 10 years?
Next to nothing.
And how many have managed over a 100 games for us?

[tuffers#1]

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

Is Football only about Profit ?

At our level yes.
Unless you want to rely on a millionaire to put his hand in his pocket for ever and a day.
Trouble is they either get bored or they run out of money.
How much money have we got in from home grown players in the last 10 years?
Next to nothing.
And how many have managed over a 100 games for us?

Why are you comparing our owners 4 years to a last 10 years of a stable Brentford .

We had a mad f*cker who nearly destroyed us
Getting rid of our best players while playing youth
Then gave away our best talent so he could take more money out of us .T& T bought us
Turned us around 2nd year champions before the 3rd year starts we lose our manager tragically
Then Covid ends the season . 4th sesson starts under covid restirctions .

Hardly a fair comparison is it .

[Still wrong]

Is Football only about Profit ?

At our level yes.
Unless you want to rely on a millionaire to put his hand in his pocket for ever and a day.
Trouble is they either get bored or they run out of money.
How much money have we got in from home grown players in the last 10 years?
Next to nothing.
And how many have managed over a 100 games for us?

Why are you comparing our owners 4 years to a last 10 years of a stable Brentford .

We had a mad f*cker who nearly destroyed us
Getting rid of our best players while playing youth
Then gave away our best talent so he could take more money out of us .T& T bought us
Turned us around 2nd year champions before the 3rd year starts we lose our manager tragically
Then Covid ends the season . 4th sesson starts under covid restirctions .

Hardly a fair comparison is it .

You asked about profit.

[tuffers#1]

At our level yes.
Unless you want to rely on a millionaire to put his hand in his pocket for ever and a day.
Trouble is they either get bored or they run out of money.
How much money have we got in from home grown players in the last 10 years?
Next to nothing.
And how many have managed over a 100 games for us?

Why are you comparing our owners 4 years to a last 10 years of a stable Brentford .

We had a mad f*cker who nearly destroyed us
Getting rid of our best players while playing youth
Then gave away our best talent so he could take more money out of us .T& T bought us
Turned us around 2nd year champions before the 3rd year starts we lose our manager tragically
Then Covid ends the season . 4th sesson starts under covid restirctions .

Hardly a fair comparison is it .

You asked about profit.

No you responded to my response of little mate about this see below

They made £15m+ on Maupay; they will make another £15m+ on Benrahma and have plenty of others getting good reviews meaning even if they don't make the prem this or next season then it will certainly not see any debt increase.

It Has taken the current owner 14 years to get to the point they are at now .

Lets look at us after 5 years being a league club again .
Especially with all clubs losing money hand over fist in
The curent situation.

He got rid of the Academy quite early.
Realised it was a waste of money.

See i was right you were Still Wrong

May 2016 they scrapped the academy
& he got involved in 2006
So 5 years as i said would be half the time of him getting
Rid of the academy . So we are ahead of the brentford curve theoretically

[Still wrong]

Why are you comparing our owners 4 years to a last 10 years of a stable Brentford .

We had a mad f*cker who nearly destroyed us
Getting rid of our best players while playing youth
Then gave away our best talent so he could take more money out of us .T& T bought us
Turned us around 2nd year champions before the 3rd year starts we lose our manager tragically
Then Covid ends the season . 4th sesson starts under covid restirctions .

Hardly a fair comparison is it .

You asked about profit.

No you responded to my response of little mate about this see below

It Has taken the current owner 14 years to get to the point they are at now .

Lets look at us after 5 years being a league club again .
Especially with all clubs losing money hand over fist in
The curent situation.

He got rid of the Academy quite early.
Realised it was a waste of money.

See i was right you were Still Wrong

May 2016 they scrapped the academy
& he got involved in 2006
So 5 years as i said would be half the time of him getting
Rid of the academy . So we are ahead of the brentford curve theoretically

Sober up.
You asked about profit.

[tuffers#1]

You asked about profit.

No you responded to my response of little mate about this see below

He got rid of the Academy quite early.
Realised it was a waste of money.

See i was right you were Still Wrong

May 2016 they scrapped the academy
& he got involved in 2006
So 5 years as i said would be half the time of him getting
Rid of the academy . So we are ahead of the brentford curve theoretically

Sober up.
You asked about profit.

Alas again still wrong you are STILL WRONG

It won’t stop clubs nicking our best players for peanuts.
To me it’s a nonsense continuing with it.
It’s not as if we have bought anybody through in the last 10 years that has got in big money.

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

It was you who asked about PROFIT .

Maybe you need to stop the.drink flowing

[Still wrong]

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

Is Football only about Profit ?

Sober up.

[tuffers#1]

And how much profit did we make on these?
No world beaters there, and with some decent scouts I am sure we can pick up some home grown bargains.

Is Football only about Profit ?

Sober up.

Yes
Beetif you do

[Still wrong]

Is Football only about Profit ?

Sober up.

Yes
Beetif you do

You’re determined to hold on to your title aren’t you.

[tuffers#1]

Sober up.

Yes
Beetif you do

You’re determined to hold on to your title aren’t you.

I am

[quote="Still wrong" post_id=171741 time=1610300352 user_id=1189
At our level yes.
Unless you want to rely on a millionaire to put his hand in his pocket for ever and a day.
Trouble is they either get bored or they run out of money.
How much money have we got in from home grown players in the last 10 years?
Next to nothing.
And how many have managed over a 100 games for us?
[/quote]

When exactly were We last at the same level as Brentford ?
Since 2014-15 they have been a championship club .
Since then we have dropped to a maximum of 3 levels
Below.Brentfords level .

Comparing a Championships clubs untold millions of tv money
Compared to paltry league 2 & non existant.non league
Support .

After 2 seasons in the championship there owner
decided to get rid of there academy ,

At our level an academy still makes sense .

[LittleMate]

It won’t stop clubs nicking our best players for peanuts.
To me it’s a nonsense continuing with it.
It’s not as if we have bought anybody through in the last 10 years that has got in big money.

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

Not too sure that we won’t be able to sign players from Europe.

TBF Tuffers has a point. Players from abroad at our level will not meet the government's required standard for employment - and nor will players just be able to "give it a dabble" by jumping on the Eurostar for a trial with a club.

[DuvB]

I think the wage cap was a terrible idea, and im surprised the club voted for it.

As one of the biggest budgets in league 2, we had an advantage when it came to bringing in new players, because we could offer more money, than most league 2 clubs, and probably a small handful of league 1 clubs....but thats now evaporated, and as the cost of living is higher in London, and your pounds dont go as far, teams outside london have an advantage

By voting in favour of a wage cap, we threw our advantage away IMO

Agree that this wage cap will work in favour of teams in the areas of England where the cost of living is far lower, in this case, London based clubs like Leyton Orient.

We may be a London-based club but that doesn’t mean that our players have to live in London. Throughout the leagues, many players have homes away from their club and either travel daily or rent a flat locally eg Coxy used to travel daily from Hayward Heath by train/tube. Which O’s players currently live in London? Youngsters living with parents maybe.

[Still wrong]

Did you not watch the last video that involved nigel kent danny & martin .
They discussed how massive the academy system will become as players
Under 21 are not part of your budget & you get savings to your budget for home growns
The brexit part was very interesting If we tried to sign Ouss Cisse we wouldnt get him
If we tried to sign Matt Baudry now we wouldnt get him , if we tried to sign a romain vincelot
A wim wilchearts etc . No David Mooney No John Tehoue ,
but we maybe would get an aged Amara Simba though.

Not too sure that we won’t be able to sign players from Europe.

TBF Tuffers has a point. Players from abroad at our level will not meet the government's required standard for employment - and nor will players just be able to "give it a dabble" by jumping on the Eurostar for a trial with a club.

No great loss.
None of our European players were sold for any decent money.

[tuffers#1]

Not too sure that we won’t be able to sign players from Europe.

TBF Tuffers has a point. Players from abroad at our level will not meet the government's required standard for employment - and nor will players just be able to "give it a dabble" by jumping on the Eurostar for a trial with a club.

No great loss.
None of our European players were sold for any decent money.

Which is why it is imperative to keep the academy open as
Championship & EPL clubs will have to recruit other home-growns
To a much greater pool of clubs .

Hence its best we keep the academy build it & any outstanding
players we sell on at PROFIT & Rely on the others to help us go up .

[Still wrong]

TBF Tuffers has a point. Players from abroad at our level will not meet the government's required standard for employment - and nor will players just be able to "give it a dabble" by jumping on the Eurostar for a trial with a club.

No great loss.
None of our European players were sold for any decent money.

Which is why it is imperative to keep the academy open as
Championship & EPL clubs will have to recruit other home-growns
To a much greater pool of clubs .

Hence its best we keep the academy build it & any outstanding
players we sell on at PROFIT & Rely on the others to help us go up .

The trouble is we are not producing outstanding talent.
Any outstanding 16 year old will be taken off us for peanuts.
The best players we have signed and sold were developed at other clubs and were let go early.
Glen Roader, Laurie Cunningham, Phil Hoadley, Richard Cadette, Greg Berry, Alan Comfort, Ricky Otto, Peter Kitchen, Moses Adubajo, Matt Lockwood. Plus many many more.
None come through the Academy.

[gshaw]

At our level an academy still makes sense .

On recent evidence still not convinced. At present only one player is making any real effect on the team (Happe). We got an equally effective player (Ekpiteta) by scouting, still reckon the money from all the resources for the academy would be more effective there.

Similar again upfront, two players from scouting (Bonne and Johnson) vs. Koroma the only decent attacking talent we've had any decent output from since Odubajo.

For the odd success here and there it just seems to be a money drain that does little more than give some people a warm fuzzy feeling of "community" while many half-decent prospects are snapped up by the bigger clubs before they even reach 18. On that front it'll be interesting to see what happens to Sweeney, Shabani and Ogie with two of them not even getting a gig 2 levels below as per the Q&A.

The other question is whether the setup now will produce any decent prospects as we went for years just making NL fodder before the Edwards-run "golden generation" and most of those went for relative peanuts.

[Tent Keague]

The academy in its current form (since T&T took over) has been running for 3 and a half years. And after 2 years it was touch and go whether or not to carry it on depending on our league status.

We got promoted and kept the academy and have thrown resources at it in the last one and a half seasons since we've been back in the league. I was against throwing such resource at it.

However now with a playing wage cap it might be time to expand on that academy even more. Upgrade it the next level of academy, incorporate the soccer schools, link up with these clubs in the US (I think Nigel mentioned the US) and Australia, develop the partnerships. It's not going to happen overnight. It could take 10-15 years but you have to start somewhere.

We were unfortunate that we had an amazing group of players come through Alzate, Abrahams, Adebayo, Judd, Sargent, Happe, Clarke, Dalby, and the others that we sold early doors to Charlton, Arsenal and I think Chelsea brought one on the other day. They were played when they shouldn't have been, punted around to get FB some cash in, and offloaded without much thought or guidance to their future development. Just to the biggest bidders no doubt. And they're sort of all finding their levels now.

So anyway at the moment we have Happe, Kyprianou, Sotiriou, Sargent and when Ogie and Judd have played they looked good for this level at least. The academy is working as it is. Could we afford to buy another Happe or Sotiriou? No we couldn't.

Yes the cream of the crop will get snapped out of our hands after us developing them for years. But as we rise as a club they won't be snapped as easily if we're offering a clear route to first team football. Especially if we are in League One and around the top of it.

We're planting the seeds now for what could be a good harvest for years to come.

[Thor]

Well said tent.

[LittleMate]

So anyway at the moment we have Happe, Kyprianou, Sotiriou are youth products. Personally Sotirou is having a backward season (looks like he's carrying too much weight/muscle compared to 2019-20). None of these will sell for the sort of money running a youth system requires (tbf Kyp needs another season to judge that).

Sargent? One in a long time of back up youth product keepers
Ogie - not sure he progressed through the youth system
Judd - never held down a place in the team.

Is the academy is working as it is?

[Tent Keague]

So anyway at the moment we have Happe, Kyprianou, Sotiriou are youth products. Personally Sotirou is having a backward season (looks like he's carrying too much weight/muscle compared to 2019-20). None of these will sell for the sort of money running a youth system requires (tbf Kyp needs another season to judge that).

Sargent? One in a long time of back up youth product keepers
Ogie - not sure he progressed through the youth system
Judd - never held down a place in the team.

Is the academy is working as it is?

Subjective isn't it. And as a side point what do people want an academy to achieve?

I'd say it is working because we couldn't afford to buy a Sotiriou, Kyprianou, or Happe if we had to. Plus as under 21's and youth they don't count towards the playing budget cap (I think they are all under 21).

It would appear that you're looking at an academy in terms of what we can get for players, rather than nurturing players that could play for us.

Any of those you mention above either do, could or have played for us currently.

[Still wrong]

So anyway at the moment we have Happe, Kyprianou, Sotiriou are youth products. Personally Sotirou is having a backward season (looks like he's carrying too much weight/muscle compared to 2019-20). None of these will sell for the sort of money running a youth system requires (tbf Kyp needs another season to judge that).

Sargent? One in a long time of back up youth product keepers
Ogie - not sure he progressed through the youth system
Judd - never held down a place in the team.

Is the academy is working as it is?

No it’s not and it never will in the modern game for a club our size.
As we have seen, anyone who shows a little bit of promise will be taken off our hands for a few grand.
It will be far better to pick up Premier/Championship club cast offs.
They have almost certainly had better coaching and facilities. Just might be late developers.
We can cash in on that.