Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:12 pm You said "I will equal any money you donate to ‘starving kids’ put up or shut up?"

Wunble has proven he donated at least £40 to a relevant charity.

Waiting for you to donate and post proof.

I actually showed up another bill big balls, StockholmO, who said I was virtue signalling by saying well done to the orient hour for the collection

Don’t know what Oriam is on about tbh

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:42 pm Best way out for the Tories is if they permanently increase child benefit to cover meals during holidays, it would also be a better solution than one off payments.

You can give some people £100 a kid and it still won’t be enough.
Their rent and utilities should be paid direct and they should be given a food Allowance card to be spent in certain shops. What’s left out of the allowance should be cash, I reckon about £180 from the £1520 per month a skint couple will receive living in a two bedroom house.
Giving someone over £1500 up front is beyond stupid.

Great idea, but what if they sold the use of their card so they could buy crack, or a small present for their child? Maybe make them wear a badge or something to identify them as in receipt of benefits.

Mick McQuaid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:44 am Great idea, but what if they sold the use of their card so they could buy crack, or a small present for their child? Maybe make them wear a badge or something to identify them as in receipt of benefits.

Well this is a different issue all together.
I thought the argument was that parents couldn’t afford to feed their kids?

Maybe insert a PEG into every child who gets free meals and supply them with three liquid feeds a day? No chance of it being misused and will also make sure the little blighters don't get any unearned enjoyment from the states benevolence.

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:12 am

Mick McQuaid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:44 am Great idea, but what if they sold the use of their card so they could buy crack, or a small present for their child? Maybe make them wear a badge or something to identify them as in receipt of benefits.

Well this is a different issue all together.
I thought the argument was that parents couldn’t afford to feed their kids?

It's the biggest recession in UK history. I don't understand why you're struggling to wrap your head around the idea that many of the people affected by this aren't lifelong benefits recipients or long term unemployed, but people who've worked hard, played by the rules, and for whatever reason - enforced loss of job, collapse of their own business, reduced hours - are struggling right now.

Universal credit is a mess of a system. It can take weeks, sometimes months, to get on it, you can be docked for a number of punitive reasons and it is not generous financially. You're coming up with your own hypothetical anecdotes, not even real ones, to cover any number of scenarios where a family might suddenly be in need of help to make sure their kids eat well.

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:16 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:42 pm Best way out for the Tories is if they permanently increase child benefit to cover meals during holidays, it would also be a better solution than one off payments.

You can give some people £100 a kid and it still won’t be enough.
Their rent and utilities should be paid direct and they should be given a food Allowance card to be spent in certain shops. What’s left out of the allowance should be cash, I reckon about £180 from the £1520 per month a skint couple will receive living in a two bedroom house.
Giving someone over £1500 up front is beyond stupid.

Can we please make sure these vouchers are only for those ghastly Lidl/Aldi type places. Thanks.

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:16 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:42 pm Best way out for the Tories is if they permanently increase child benefit to cover meals during holidays, it would also be a better solution than one off payments.

You can give some people £100 a kid and it still won’t be enough.
Their rent and utilities should be paid direct and they should be given a food Allowance card to be spent in certain shops. What’s left out of the allowance should be cash, I reckon about £180 from the £1520 per month a skint couple will receive living in a two bedroom house.
Giving someone over £1500 up front is beyond stupid.

Why do you hate poor people so much that you want you to make their lives miserable by the use of authoritarian interventions in their lives?

Why do you love poor people so much? They dont even vote lefty anymore.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:08 am Why do you love poor people so much? They dont even vote lefty anymore.

Where did I say I loved them?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:02 am

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:16 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:42 pm Best way out for the Tories is if they permanently increase child benefit to cover meals during holidays, it would also be a better solution than one off payments.

You can give some people £100 a kid and it still won’t be enough.
Their rent and utilities should be paid direct and they should be given a food Allowance card to be spent in certain shops. What’s left out of the allowance should be cash, I reckon about £180 from the £1520 per month a skint couple will receive living in a two bedroom house.
Giving someone over £1500 up front is beyond stupid.

Why do you hate poor people so much that you want you to make their lives miserable by the use of authoritarian interventions in their lives?

Because certain people can’t handle money well.
The welfare state was introduced as a safety net so you didn’t starve.
£1500 pm should assure that.
If people are given food card, this will ensure it will be spent on food.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:17 am

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:12 am

Mick McQuaid wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:44 am Great idea, but what if they sold the use of their card so they could buy crack, or a small present for their child? Maybe make them wear a badge or something to identify them as in receipt of benefits.

Well this is a different issue all together.
I thought the argument was that parents couldn’t afford to feed their kids?

It's the biggest recession in UK history. I don't understand why you're struggling to wrap your head around the idea that many of the people affected by this aren't lifelong benefits recipients or long term unemployed, but people who've worked hard, played by the rules, and for whatever reason - enforced loss of job, collapse of their own business, reduced hours - are struggling right now.

Universal credit is a mess of a system. It can take weeks, sometimes months, to get on it, you can be docked for a number of punitive reasons and it is not generous financially. You're coming up with your own hypothetical anecdotes, not even real ones, to cover any number of scenarios where a family might suddenly be in need of help to make sure their kids eat well.

Why should it be generous?
It’s a safety net.

So you're not actually going to engage on this and keep repeating the same reductive lines? Boring.

Congratulations on realising that Mr Cavalier, with his 98 post count, 96 of which have been on poor people in the past 5 days, is a wum.

Has porridge been mentioned on this thread yet?

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:02 am

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:16 am

You can give some people £100 a kid and it still won’t be enough.
Their rent and utilities should be paid direct and they should be given a food Allowance card to be spent in certain shops. What’s left out of the allowance should be cash, I reckon about £180 from the £1520 per month a skint couple will receive living in a two bedroom house.
Giving someone over £1500 up front is beyond stupid.

Why do you hate poor people so much that you want you to make their lives miserable by the use of authoritarian interventions in their lives?

Because certain people can’t handle money well.
The welfare state was introduced as a safety net so you didn’t starve.
£1500 pm should assure that.
If people are given food card, this will ensure it will be spent on food.

If people can't handle money and it appears there is not enough of it to go round, is the answer not just to abolish money rather than infringe on the rights of the poor to decide how to spend the little they have and treat them like second class citizens?

I admire Max's confidence that, following the abolishment of money, the poor will be treated better.

Personally, my money is on them ending up as fertiliser.

" iF YOU CANT FEED THEM, DONT BREED THEM"..

Old saying, but some what true...

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:17 am

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:02 am

Why do you hate poor people so much that you want you to make their lives miserable by the use of authoritarian interventions in their lives?

Because certain people can’t handle money well.
The welfare state was introduced as a safety net so you didn’t starve.
£1500 pm should assure that.
If people are given food card, this will ensure it will be spent on food.

If people can't handle money and it appears there is not enough of it to go round, is the answer not just to abolish money rather than infringe on the rights of the poor to decide how to spend the little they have and treat them like second class citizens?

Max,
How do you know there is not enough to go around?
Until you research how much people are allocated then you have no idea.
It has to be said that it is not a huge amount but it is enough to get by on.
No one has mentioned that Rashford was apparently short of food under a Labour government. And how much Maintenance was his father paying?

Afternoon Cavalier! Out of interest, what are you trying to point out with all your posts the past few days? That people are too unfair on the government? Poor people aren't that poor really? Bit of both?

Like, are you hoping for a discussion maybe so you can learn or teach something, or will all your posts be along these lines from now on?

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:24 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:17 am

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am

Because certain people can’t handle money well.
The welfare state was introduced as a safety net so you didn’t starve.
£1500 pm should assure that.
If people are given food card, this will ensure it will be spent on food.

If people can't handle money and it appears there is not enough of it to go round, is the answer not just to abolish money rather than infringe on the rights of the poor to decide how to spend the little they have and treat them like second class citizens?

Max,
How do you know there is not enough to go around?
Until you research how much people are allocated then you have no idea.
It has to be said that it is not a huge amount but it is enough to get by on.
No one has mentioned that Rashford was apparently short of food under a Labour government. And how much Maintenance was his father paying?

My apologies for being too subtle for you.

I wasn't actually saying there isn't enough money to go round. I was being sarcastic. There is enough in the world to pay those who fall on hard times a decent amount to live a fulfilling life.

I'm in favour of a universal basic income set at a sensible level.

I have no idea what Rashfords personal family circumstances were when he was a kid. In fact it's actually none of my business.

Your point about Labour is 10 years too late. Its the Tories who want kids to starve and to punish the poor.

Many of whom are in full time employment but are so badly exploited they need a top up from the state whilst the greedy capitalists abdicate their responsibilities to society.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:44 pm

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:24 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:17 am

If people can't handle money and it appears there is not enough of it to go round, is the answer not just to abolish money rather than infringe on the rights of the poor to decide how to spend the little they have and treat them like second class citizens?

Max,
How do you know there is not enough to go around?
Until you research how much people are allocated then you have no idea.
It has to be said that it is not a huge amount but it is enough to get by on.
No one has mentioned that Rashford was apparently short of food under a Labour government. And how much Maintenance was his father paying?

My apologies for being too subtle for you.

I wasn't actually saying there isn't enough money to go round. I was being sarcastic. There is enough in the world to pay those who fall on hard times a decent amount to live a fulfilling life.

I'm in favour of a universal basic income set at a sensible level.

I have no idea what Rashfords personal family circumstances were when he was a kid. In fact it's actually none of my business.

Your point about Labour is 10 years too late. Its the Tories who want kids to starve and to punish the poor.

Many of whom are in full time employment but are so badly exploited they need a top up from the state whilst the greedy capitalists abdicate their responsibilities to society.

Sorry for missing your bit of sarcasm Max, I have been under the Cavalier all day getting ready for the MoT.
It was Rashford that bought his personal situation into the public eye so I don’t think it’s an unreasonable question to be asked.
I agree fully that the government shouldn’t top up pay for mean employers who fail to pay a living wage.
If you work for 40 hours a week and still need a government top up, then that is all wrong.In my current spell of unemployment you wouldn’t believe some of the p—- taking jobs I have been interviewed for. I have turned down Three of them because the terms and conditions were so bad. I saw one yesterday which stated they would prefer Rumanian or Hungarian speakers. This is the sort of s—- that is around now and as I said the other day, night work and weekend working at flat rate and they are getting the desperate do it.
The minimum wage needs a total revamp. Also any major shop that opens on a Sunday should be compelled to pay their staff double time, they can well afford it and it will probably get these people off the state top ups.

Were the Rumanian and Hungarian jobs for a translator.

I'm a bit taken aback to learn that you have turned down three jobs and prefer to languish on the dole sooking up government money.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:00 pm Were the Rumanian and Hungarian jobs for a translator.

I'm a bit taken aback to learn that you have turned down three jobs and prefer to languish on the dole sooking up government money.

If you bothered to pay attention I stated the other day that I am claiming nothing.
JSA last for 6 months and then you get nothing.
Sarcasm again I see when replying to the statement about cheap foreign labour.

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:24 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:17 am

Cavalier wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am

Because certain people can’t handle money well.
The welfare state was introduced as a safety net so you didn’t starve.
£1500 pm should assure that.
If people are given food card, this will ensure it will be spent on food.

If people can't handle money and it appears there is not enough of it to go round, is the answer not just to abolish money rather than infringe on the rights of the poor to decide how to spend the little they have and treat them like second class citizens?

Max,
How do you know there is not enough to go around?
Until you research how much people are allocated then you have no idea.
It has to be said that it is not a huge amount but it is enough to get by on.
No one has mentioned that Rashford was apparently short of food under a Labour government. And how much Maintenance was his father paying?

For a lifelong labour voter, you seem very down on the Labour Party. Almost as if you’re forgetting your character.