cymruO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:41 pm
The prospective VP would be left of Bernie Sanders. My guess is that the focus of this election will be her, not Biden. As I said earlier, she is the real Presidential candidate.
Just because Trump inevitably called Harris a marxist left radical, it (unsurprisingly) doesn't mean that description is correct. KM is very much on the right flank of the Dems.
You’re joking. I’ve seen online reports that said she’s further left than Bernie Saunders.
This is a great example of how The Big Ol' Scary Lefty Thats Gonna Change Everything And Set Us Back myth gets played out. Democrats are not, by UK standards - 'lefties'. They are liberals and conservatives in our money. David Cameron would be a Dem, for example. And Harris is to the right of that.
But they say this sort of thing, people do not research it but believe it and all of a sudden a myth is created that the person is too scary to vote for. It's similar (but definitely not the same) to thinking Corbyn is ultra left wing. It's a scare tactic and works very well in America.
Just because Trump inevitably called Harris a marxist left radical, it (unsurprisingly) doesn't mean that description is correct. KM is very much on the right flank of the Dems.
You’re joking. I’ve seen online reports that said she’s further left than Bernie Saunders.
This is a great example of how The Big Ol' Scary Lefty Thats Gonna Change Everything And Set Us Back myth gets played out. Democrats are not, by UK standards - 'lefties'. They are liberals and conservatives in our money. David Cameron would be a Dem, for example. And Harris is to the right of that.
But they say this sort of thing, people do not research it but believe it and all of a sudden a myth is created that the person is too scary to vote for. It's similar (but definitely not the same) to thinking Corbyn is ultra left wing. It's a scare tactic and works very well in America.
Traditionally speaking maybe
The contemporary Democratic party are far more left than the Conservative Party on social issues. They've come within a whisker of selecting a democratic socialist as presidential candidate for the last two elections. AOC is probably their highest profile elected representative
I'm not so sure they are far more left. Which issues do you think they are far more left on? They have some big name progressives for sure but I think they are the exception to the norm.
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:48 pm
I'm not so sure they are far more left. Which issues do you think they are far more left on? They have some big name progressives for sure but I think they are the exception to the norm.
Actually I take back the "Far more", but topics they're generally to the left of the UK Conservative Party on
Gay rights, Trans rights, Universal basic income, drug legalisation, social security, University tuition fees, immigration
I think the two main parties are a weird coalitions, which go through cyclical transformations when their respective interest groups sink or rise to prominence, or even swap parties.
I also think we may be seeing one of those periods now. There's plenty in the GOP that are aghast with Trump, and many in the Dems that are in despair over their championing of the social justice movements. It should make for interesting viewing.
Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:12 pm
I think the two main parties are a weird coalitions, which go through cyclical transformations when their respective interest groups sink or rise to prominence, or even swap parties.
I also think we may be seeing one of those periods now. There's plenty in the GOP that are aghast with Trump, and many in the Dems that are in despair over their championing of the social justice movements. It should make for interesting viewing.
It's interesting isn't it
The Democrats accepted Obama's generally Conservative agenda because he chucked in Obamacare, was left of McCain/Romney and obviously because he was black
Then with the GOP, their defining movement of the Obama administration was the small state free market Tea Party. Yet when it came to elections they gave us a protectionist, state subsides isolationist in Trump
Dunners wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:12 pm
I think the two main parties are a weird coalitions, which go through cyclical transformations when their respective interest groups sink or rise to prominence, or even swap parties.
I also think we may be seeing one of those periods now. There's plenty in the GOP that are aghast with Trump, and many in the Dems that are in despair over their championing of the social justice movements. It should make for interesting viewing.
It's interesting isn't it
The Democrats accepted Obama's generally Conservative agenda because he chucked in Obamacare, was left of McCain/Romney and obviously because he was black
Then with the GOP, their defining movement of the Obama administration was the small state free market Tea Party. Yet when it came to elections they gave us a protectionist, state subsides isolationist in Trump
Yep. And there was much entertainment watching the reaction today as the national security/fiscally conservative/corporate backers of the GOP all publicly backed Biden today. WT actual F?
Interesting to note, that the people on here who think Biden can/will win are all left-wingers !!!
You don't think the favourite, the candidate ahead in the polls 'can win?'.
I agree he isn't guaranteed, in fact if I was betting I'd probably edge towards Trump, but Biden can obviously win.
of course he can win however, once he goes head to head trump will wipe the floor with him.
Absolutely. Those head to head's are going to be very interesting but I'm half expecting the Democrats to try and get out of them because they'll know that's going to happen.
I'm very much in agreement that Biden is far too doddery to be a good debater anymore (although his staged stuff is good, like his acceptance speech this week) - but I assume neither of you are saying the above because you think Trump is actually good? He is a genuinely awful debater, although he is lucky because just repeating 'fake news!' or just outright lying will appeal to his base and those that think he is anti-establishment etc. He is terrible. It really is the shiniest of two turds.
Dems are socially left liberal but so is just about everybody now. The vitriol the Tories get from the left is dumb seeing as Sunik has wracked up 2tn of debt already and there is nothing hard line conservative with the conservatives views on immigration through to prison sentences. It was the Tories who introduced Gay marriage. Yes, they let Patel throw their voters the odd bit of red meat but it’s just a show. Johnson is a full payed up member of the liberal jelly brigade. Republicans are obviously to the right but even they are moving with the times although it’s like a tanker trying to turn round. Old bigots like me will die off and the youngsters now are much more aware of social issues. It’s a good thing.
If I was Trump I would go quiet on mail in ballots. I reckon he’s going to win the election quite comfortably. All that’s going to happen is the Democrats will turn around and cry foul over fraud with mail in ballots and turn Trumps own fears against him . The Democrats will therefore contest the result and it will drag on
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:20 am
If I was Trump I would go quiet on mail in ballots. I reckon he’s going to win the election quite comfortably. All that’s going to happen is the Democrats will turn around and cry foul over fraud with mail in ballots and turn Trumps own fears against him . The Democrats will therefore contest the result and it will drag on
From the Beeb today:- Donald Trump's sister says he's an 'unprincipled phoney..................She ( his favourite sister), has been recorded saying that
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:20 am
If I was Trump I would go quiet on mail in ballots. I reckon he’s going to win the election quite comfortably. All that’s going to happen is the Democrats will turn around and cry foul over fraud with mail in ballots and turn Trumps own fears against him . The Democrats will therefore contest the result and it will drag on
Not sure how can think Trump is going to win this election....and comfortably, when every poll, shows him a long way behind.
Do you know something we dont know, that is going to enable DT to win?
When push comes to shove there's no way Texas, Georgia, North and South Carolina go to the Dems, so its closer than it looks. Think Trump's odds rest a lot on having a vaccine developed by election day, he'll be able to offset a lot of the anger at how terribly he's managed the entire crisis if he's seen to have presented a solution in rapid time. Still really struggle to wrap my head around how his support his even holding up at 40% though, his mental infirmity becomes more obvious with each interview and bizarre rant.
I’m on YouTube most nights catching up with the American news channels . It’s more interesting than watching the TV. It’s almost like tuning in for the next episode.
Someone else was making the argument that Republican voters and politicians have essentially made a Faustian pact with Trump. In exchange for conservative Supreme Court picks, vindictive persecution of migrants and minorities, a smattering of anti-abortion laws and having a leader who winds up the libs, they are willing to overlook the corruption, the degradation of state institutions, the blatant violation of democratic norms and general batsh*t insanity.
I think we have a minor version of it here too. The 'he's just saying wot we're all thinking!' brigade would normally have no choice put to pin that rosette on the likes of outsiders like Farage, Robinson, Hopkins - but with Boris, the more unpalatable Tory members and MP's are able to have their less media friendly opinions aired and live in that world without having to do the heavy lifting as 'it's just Boris!'. It has made, as the US, a very nasty atmosphere.
Once Boris goes next year and someone more sensible like Hunt goes back in we'll be in a very weird in between. The US won't have that with Pence being so full on himself, the odious little bumhole.
