Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:25 pm Who said it had to be confidential? It's probably just good practice that if you want someones services, you dont upload a youtube video trying to mug them off. But I'm a millennial, what do i know?

Mug them off

The only person trying to mug anyone off is you with your ridiculous summing up of the video.

And in answer to what do you know, as I said earlier it's obviously sweet FA.

Ill get back to my 'fanzine' now ive been told whats what. cheers guys, you've made so much sense...

Another row on another thread.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:17 pm Funny how some of the 'business experts' on here are happy with a director discussing something thats still within a negotiation. Imagine a FTSE 100 company trying to work out a contract with a CEO and going public about them not signing a perfectly good offer. You keep it internal until its done, one way or the other.

What a load of complete nonsense.

Comparing this with a FTSE business negotiation is nothing like. Take a look at any club talking about players on social media and you would find something similar took me less than a minute to find this:-

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/spor ... rs-2928181

Clubs informing fans of what's going on with the squad has got to be a good thing, no personal details disclosed lots of people asking what the situation is with Ruel and there you have it.

It's always been this way.

That's just as bad.

It's the same scenario - club is pissed off with the player not renewing his contract (a 1 year contract at that) so have spouted off publicly.

At least Keith Curle is a bit more professional.

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:22 am

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:17 pm Funny how some of the 'business experts' on here are happy with a director discussing something thats still within a negotiation. Imagine a FTSE 100 company trying to work out a contract with a CEO and going public about them not signing a perfectly good offer. You keep it internal until its done, one way or the other.

What a load of complete nonsense.

Comparing this with a FTSE business negotiation is nothing like. Take a look at any club talking about players on social media and you would find something similar took me less than a minute to find this:-

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/spor ... rs-2928181

Clubs informing fans of what's going on with the squad has got to be a good thing, no personal details disclosed lots of people asking what the situation is with Ruel and there you have it.

It's always been this way.

That's just as bad.

It's the same scenario - club is p*ssed off with the player not renewing his contract (a 1 year contract at that) so have spouted off publicly.

At least Keith Curle is a bit more professional.

And if the club had said nothing, many would have been calling out the club for being poor communicators and disrespectful to the fans.

DuvB wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:10 am

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:22 am

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:56 pm

What a load of complete nonsense.

Comparing this with a FTSE business negotiation is nothing like. Take a look at any club talking about players on social media and you would find something similar took me less than a minute to find this:-

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/spor ... rs-2928181

Clubs informing fans of what's going on with the squad has got to be a good thing, no personal details disclosed lots of people asking what the situation is with Ruel and there you have it.

It's always been this way.

That's just as bad.

It's the same scenario - club is p*ssed off with the player not renewing his contract (a 1 year contract at that) so have spouted off publicly.

At least Keith Curle is a bit more professional.

And if the club had said nothing, many would have been calling out the club for being poor communicators and disrespectful to the fans.

If only there was some middle ground between saying nothing and throwing the kid under the bus.

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:59 am

DuvB wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:10 am

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:22 am

That's just as bad.

It's the same scenario - club is p*ssed off with the player not renewing his contract (a 1 year contract at that) so have spouted off publicly.

At least Keith Curle is a bit more professional.

And if the club had said nothing, many would have been calling out the club for being poor communicators and disrespectful to the fans.

If only there was some middle ground between saying nothing and throwing the kid under the bus.

You are such a drama queen, nobody has thrown anyone under a bus. Ling has stated what the current situation Is and the ball is in Ruels court we want him back but the choice is his. If that offends you you really are a snowflake.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:00 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:59 am

DuvB wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:10 am

And if the club had said nothing, many would have been calling out the club for being poor communicators and disrespectful to the fans.

If only there was some middle ground between saying nothing and throwing the kid under the bus.

You are such a drama queen, nobody has thrown anyone under a bus. Ling has stated what the current situation Is and the ball is in Ruels court we want him back but the choice is his. If that offends you you really are a snowflake.

I am not the greatest fan of Martin Ling or Ross Embleton, but I could see nothing wrong at all with the Ling video regarding the current situation with Ruel. Martin was just stating the situation as it was at that time and he also said that he would like Ruel to stay at the club, so how could he have said anything much different to what he did say ?

Let's all just move on. In the next couple of weeks something should be decided and then we will have a clearer picture of everything.

This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:48 pm This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

If nobody comes in for him,
Do you think he'll just quit the game for a bit &
Become Labourer or a delivery driver ?

No he will probably re-sign.
Best to keep him fit for our benefit
when the season starts

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:48 pm This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

We would all like him to re-sign, he's a very good prospect. It's unusual but not a unique situation and the fact he is back with us training gives me more hope he will re-sign for us. If he does put pen to paper I will be pleased, if not I hope he goes to big club has a good career and we get a decent fee.

Going to be lots of players available in this window.

Just a shame it leaves our transfer plans on hold until he makes his mind up.

The problem is the salary cap. If these players dont sign by tomorrow night, do they have to accept lower wages. It sounds like the loan market is going to have a field day

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:08 pm Just a shame it leaves our transfer plans on hold until he makes his mind up.

Not necessarily, we can still talk to players that are available, just because you talk with players you don't have to sign them in the same way a player might talk with several clubs before he decides (or not) to sign.

POSHO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:13 pm The problem is the salary cap. If these players dont sign by tomorrow night, do they have to accept lower wages. It sounds like the loan market is going to have a field day

Chill on that one for Noe PoshO, not yet agreed and it might yet not be adopted until 21/22.

#eflshablescontinues

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:48 pm This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

If he is out of contract why would the club be paying him to train?

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:29 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:48 pm This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

If he is out of contract why would the club be paying him to train?

The club has got him on a week to week contract. If LOFC want to get a fee for the player (which of course we do assuming he goes) we have to have made him an improved contract offer which we have and keep him tied to the club on a week to week deal. If we didn'tdo either he could sign for someone and we would get nothing.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:36 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:29 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:48 pm This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

If he is out of contract why would the club be paying him to train?

The club has got him on a week to week contract. If LOFC want to get a fee for the player (which of course we do assuming he goes) we have to have made him an improved contract offer which we have and keep him tied to the club on a week to week deal. If we didn'tdo either he could sign for someone and we would get nothing.

Is it compensation payment as he is u-21 as well ?

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:39 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:36 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:29 pm

If he is out of contract why would the club be paying him to train?

The club has got him on a week to week contract. If LOFC want to get a fee for the player (which of course we do assuming he goes) we have to have made him an improved contract offer which we have and keep him tied to the club on a week to week deal. If we didn'tdo either he could sign for someone and we would get nothing.

Is it compensation payment as he is u-21 as well ?

No. Compensation payments are made for academy players not on full contracts. Sotiriou is an under 24 contracted player so if he leaves and the buying club offer a fee that we decline, it goes to a tribunal, I dug out the tribunals justification for George Porters fee a few weeks ago I will find it and re-post it.

There you go this is how Porters fee was decided by tribunal it explains the whole process (nearly) taken from a site that specialises in sport contract law:-

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where a professional player, under the age of 24, has been offered a new contract by his club (subject to certain requirements that the offer must meet set out in Rule 64.3 of the Football League Rules) and he rejects that offer in order to take up the opportunity to sign for another club, A tribunal set fee will be payable. This is not to be confused with training compensation under the EPPP regime (that applies to Academy players), an entirely different proposition.

In the majority of cases, clubs will reach mutual agreement on a compensation fee. However, in others the two clubs’ valuations will differ, sometimes significantly, and the matter will need to be settled through an arbitration process.

That process is operated by the Professional Football Compensation Committee (PFCC). The PFCC is incorporated under the rules of both The Football League and Premier League, and forms part of the collective bargaining agreement with the Professional Footballers’ Association. The PFCC comprises of an independent Chairman, appointees from The Football League and Premier League (as appropriate), an appointee of The Professional Footballers’ Association and an appointee of the League Managers’ Association.



Porter had made 34 league appearances for Leyton Orient between the age of 18 and 20. He rejected a new two year contract offer, and instead signed a three year contract with the Championship club Burnley.

The PFCC decided that Burnley should pay Leyton Orient an initial compensation fee of £90,000.

Additionally, Burnley were to pay Leyton Orient a further £17,500 after the player has made 15, 30, 45 and 60 appearances (i.e. a total further potential payment of £70,000).

Burnley would also pay Leyton Orient a further sum of £100,000 if Burnley were promoted to the Premier League in the next three seasons and assuming the player remains at the club and had played at least 23 matches in the promotion season.

Leyton Orient should receive 16.5% of any profit made by Burnley in selling the player to another club at any point in the future.

Just to point out that Porter was so far out of his depth we only got the original £90k. Still not bad though.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:48 pm This situation is becoming ridiculous now.
We have an ex player, whose contract has run its course, whose refusing ( as far as we know), to sign another one with the club, but who the club is paying ( presumably his full salary), and who's using the clubs training facilities to keep fit, so another club, with who he does sign a contract, will have a fit player, ready to go....all at Leyton Orient's expense.
This has become a farce.
Surely there's a time limit, at which point the player has to either sign, or leave the club in all senses of the word

Tough one for Martin Ling this too. He got criticised for giving Ebou Adams a deadline and rushing him, and he's getting crucified for not giving Ruel Sotiriou a deadline and rushing him. Almost like he can't win really.

Cheers T.O.T. JES

Much clearer understanding now