Independent Leyton Orient Forum

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:36 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:58 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:05 pm

Ling standard practice, trying hard to replicate the Adams / Gorman selection process as closely as possible

It's not standard practice at all. That's just you whingeing as usual.

If we get Ouss you can reference that comment and I'll be happy to let you have the score. If we don't it's goal to the opposition

What are you on about now? Everyone in this thread, including Faith, are contributing something sensible and constructive except for you, and I think that sums you up.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:00 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm Some really good posts in this thread. Considered and accurate in my mind. And good that there's one thread we can productively critique recruitment without being called a moaner.

Marvin was a great example of proactive scouting, who did well for us out of obscurity and has now gone onto League One. I know it's easier said than done, and there will be more misses than hits but i'd rather 17th in the league taking a chance of a few players, with experienced mixed in then somewhere in the middle where you get the worst of both worlds.

What i'd like is some sort of club philosophy going forward. Look at Brentford, a club not massively different to ours in terms of size. They implemented a way of doing things, really stuck to it, made some hard decisions and look at them now. What's Orient's current philosophy on scouting/coaching/style/type of player etc...? I couldn't tell you.

It would be nice if we invested some money in some quality, proven, new thinkers in the scouting department and like what has been discussed, decide on an approach to player recruitment. And sort of framework of what an Orient player is. Personality, skill set, style of play, ambition, etc...

At the moment we seem to have a scatter gun approach to everything. Get a new manager, doesn't work? get rid, bring in someone else. Offer contract extensions to players because they performed well in one season without looking at things like regression and how else the money could be used...sure thing.

As is clear, I dont think Ross is the man to take us forward and dont really agree with bringing in an inexperienced assistant to 'help' him. BUT if i knew that it fit with the clubs philosophy and long term strategy then I'd back it. I trust Nigel and Kent as business men but not necessarily people making the football decisions. But if it fit into some sort of communicated plan then I'd happily go along for the ride.

Good and considered post. I've disagreed with you a few times on football this past week, please don't think I'm digging for the sake of it, nor defending the club for the sake of it. But I'd just say a few things, of which I'd be interested in your thoughts.

- Regarding specific philosophies that are somewhat unique, I can probably think of Peterborough (big fees for non league, transfer list final year of contract for all), Stevenage (low fee non league, hungry), Crawley (big B team with non contract, non signed trialists from non league training everyday) and Brentford (moneyball), Crewe. Do you know many others?

- Do you not think we have a framework for personality, skill set, style of play etc? It seems odd to think we wouldn't, Ross critiques aside. I know you might rightly say it doesn't look like they do, but realistically.

Thanks for the reply.

- I don't think I could name anymore, if i'm honest. But I'm sure there's a least a few more. And tbh, i'm not necessarily saying we need to come up with some brand new, unique and vast overhaul (it would be nice, but i'm also realistic). Every company should have a set of values, behaviours, goals and whilst I've heard that the board have an x year plan, which i think we've been told the high-level message of, I can't really combine some of the decisions we make aligning with that. In fact, some times they feel at odds. I'm assuming here, so correct me if i'm wrong, but I take your point as being that it's not abnormal for Orient not to have a philosophy? You're obviously not wrong, but I dont personally think that that should be a reason to stop us standing out. We are a unique club for a lot of reasons. I'd like to stand out. I guess, that's part of the problem for me. Without something I can see us floating around 14th in League Two for the next ten years, which i dont think anyone wants.

- Hmmm. To be fair, I have heard a lot from people like Ling saying 'it's about the right person as much as the right player/coach'. So I do think that there's something there. But I couldn't tell you what it was. Not that the club should necessarily come out and say, but again, I wouldn't be able to tell you from our hire (I obviously dont know them inside out but there doesn't seem to be much consistency). The Fletcher thing was a good example. Ling was shouting from every balcony around the ground how Fletcher was the best person for the job because of the type of person he was, what changed in 6 weeks? I know it's results based but it proves to me that it was a load of bollocks to placate the fans who didnt think he had enough experience. It all feels secondary. And what do i know, maybe it should be? I just dont buy what they say based on the sliver of evidence i get to see.

Not to be pedantic but just to point out Fletcher didn’t even get six weeks in the job . He was sacked after 29days!

redintheface wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:26 am Not to be pedantic but just to point out Fletcher didn’t even get six weeks in the job . He was sacked after 29days!

Right on the money again Red.

Because he was the wrong man for the job. It all come's down to poor recuitment at the club at that time, hopefully with this new appointment to the coaching staff thing's might change.

faith1234 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:26 am Because he was the wrong man for the job. It all come's down to poor recuitment at the club at that time, hopefully with this new appointment to the coaching staff thing's might change.

Only time will tell on that one. Hope springs eternal as they say!

Poor recruitment? I have been conned many times by candidates. Not only do people present their best face to the prospective company but also previous employers either give bland references or previous colleagues are 'friends' and dont give an unbiased opinion.

Recruitment is a minefield in whatever sector.

DuvB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:14 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:07 am

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:56 pm

Be good if thats the plan, but Embleton intimated on his interview today that there were only likely to be "a couple" of signings.

I am not a fan of Ross as our manager for many reasons, to me, seems more suited as a football coach than a manager, we shall see. I am quite a perceptive person and after seeing the photo of Danny Senda on the Leyton Orient website and reading about his past record, I have a good feeling about him, time will prove if that feeling is correct. He has played the game, coached young players and looks a bright and positive type of character, he looks like he could be a ''Good'un'' !

If I send you a photo of my new girlfriend, can you please use your perceptiveness to give me feedback on her?

Hard to judge imaginary people on looks alone

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:00 pm Poor recruitment? I have been conned many times by candidates. Not only do people present their best face to the prospective company but also previous employers either give bland references or previous colleagues are 'friends' and dont give an unbiased opinion.

Recruitment is a minefield in whatever sector.

Yep, and let's not forget that FB convinced Bazza he was a genuinely good person to take on our beloved club.

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:56 pm

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:00 pm Poor recruitment? I have been conned many times by candidates. Not only do people present their best face to the prospective company but also previous employers either give bland references or previous colleagues are 'friends' and dont give an unbiased opinion.

Recruitment is a minefield in whatever sector.

Yep, and let's not forget that FB convinced Bazza he was a genuinely good person to take on our beloved club.

Did FB convince win you over upon seeing him for the first time at that first news conference ?
Cant say the same applied for me.

Dont think Bazza could see straight with those £££ signs in his eyes.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:20 pm Dont think Bazza could see straight with those £££ signs in his eyes.

Fletcher lied about his intentions for the squad or completely misjudged it. He put peoples noses out of joint. Thats why he was sacked. Some people interview well but turn out not to be the real deal.

I think our philosophy is about personality, the dressing room.

Perhaps it was too cosy as a result of the tragic events and the understandable "siege mentality" that followed. He could have said things that hit a nerve or were too close to the truth - who knows...

We can forget about Wordsworth now I guess.

I wouldn't be so sure.

DuvB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:52 pm We can forget about Wordsworth now I guess.

What are Wordsworth?

Now we have a great signing in cisse may the signing keep coming in i hope

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:36 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:58 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:05 pm

Ling standard practice, trying hard to replicate the Adams / Gorman selection process as closely as possible

It's not standard practice at all. That's just you whingeing as usual.

If we get Ouss you can reference that comment and I'll be happy to let you have the score. If we don't it's goal to the opposition

Are you coming back to explain this or are you too busy hiding?

WGC O wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:16 pm Perhaps it was too cosy as a result of the tragic events and the understandable "siege mentality" that followed. He could have said things that hit a nerve or were too close to the truth - who knows...

Any manager worth a damn would have fostered that siege mentality and turned it to his advantage. He was two months away from a transfer window and told a bunch of grieving players (who had won their previous three games) that half of them weren’t good enough and the other half had to change the way they played. Didn’t matter whether he was right or wrong (he was right), he was clearly an idiot.

KMT

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:48 am

WGC O wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:16 pm Perhaps it was too cosy as a result of the tragic events and the understandable "siege mentality" that followed. He could have said things that hit a nerve or were too close to the truth - who knows...

Any manager worth a damn would have fostered that siege mentality and turned it to his advantage. He was two months away from a transfer window and told a bunch of grieving players (who had won their previous three games) that half of them weren’t good enough and the other half had to change the way they played. Didn’t matter whether he was right or wrong (he was right), he was clearly an idiot.

KMT

Put it like that, yes, also poor recruitment process to select him in the first place.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:27 am

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:48 am

WGC O wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:16 pm Perhaps it was too cosy as a result of the tragic events and the understandable "siege mentality" that followed. He could have said things that hit a nerve or were too close to the truth - who knows...

Any manager worth a damn would have fostered that siege mentality and turned it to his advantage. He was two months away from a transfer window and told a bunch of grieving players (who had won their previous three games) that half of them weren’t good enough and the other half had to change the way they played. Didn’t matter whether he was right or wrong (he was right), he was clearly an idiot.

KMT

Put it like that, yes, also poor recruitment process to select him in the first place.

Can’t agree with you Sid on a poor recruitment process. Candidates who really want a job will present the face that will get them that job. Their references can also be from
“friends” who want them to get the job. What they do after they are appointed determines whether they succeed or in Fletcher’s case, fail quickly.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:51 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:36 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:58 pm

It's not standard practice at all. That's just you whingeing as usual.

If we get Ouss you can reference that comment and I'll be happy to let you have the score. If we don't it's goal to the opposition

Are you coming back to explain this or are you too busy hiding?

Perfect example of the reverse Jonah
I'm very very pleased we got our man, he makes all the difference

Wish I could hide at the moment then work couldn't find me

gshaw wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:48 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:51 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:36 pm

If we get Ouss you can reference that comment and I'll be happy to let you have the score. If we don't it's goal to the opposition

Are you coming back to explain this or are you too busy hiding?

Perfect example of the reverse Jonah
I'm very very pleased we got our man, he makes all the difference

Wish I could hide at the moment then work couldn't find me

It was a perfect example of you crying like a bitch as usual.

DuvB wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:32 am

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:27 am

Kitch’s Magic Toes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:48 am

Any manager worth a damn would have fostered that siege mentality and turned it to his advantage. He was two months away from a transfer window and told a bunch of grieving players (who had won their previous three games) that half of them weren’t good enough and the other half had to change the way they played. Didn’t matter whether he was right or wrong (he was right), he was clearly an idiot.

KMT

Put it like that, yes, also poor recruitment process to select him in the first place.

Can’t agree with you Sid on a poor recruitment process. Candidates who really want a job will present the face that will get them that job. Their references can also be from
“friends” who want them to get the job. What they do after they are appointed determines whether they succeed or in Fletcher’s case, fail quickly.

But surely any candidate for the job would have to outlay his plans for the future and the people interviewing him should have told him that if he took on the job, small changes in the playing staff were possible, but in the main, he would have to work with the present players and make the best of what he had. Similar to the fact ( from what we gather ) that he was made aware that he would have to work with the current coaches and not be able to bring in his own number two.