Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Hold on, the club may have or could have or should have done more. Delete as required.

How do we know if Ling tried to re-sign him early enough? Or told him he was part of the long term plans? What we do know for sure was that he was not ready or maybe not trusted to be a part of the first team squad and only made the team when we had no one else to turn to. He then did the business.

So maybe he was pissed by the club actions, ling and Ross in particular, and when they came running "oh please stay please sign" his agent has probably told him they didn't bother with you before so why should you bother with them now other clubs are interested.

That's probably as close to what's happened as your gonna get at a pure 100% guess.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:39 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:18 pm

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Why not wait and see instead of crying about it now.

Club won't ever say, everything is "undisclosed" but the EPPP guidelines give you an idea what the compo fee is

You do understand "everything is undisclosed" when we agree a sale/to buy a player because that's the rules, right?

Edit: this has been explained to you before, yet still for some reason you use it to make digs at the club for not saying.

I always do find it amazing how fees leak out at many other clubs but Orient ones are locked in a "pact of iron inviolability"

Answer me this one though out of interest... if everything is undisclosed how do we know that Kelly was our record signing for £200k?

Cos back then it was released. As per EFL rules in place now all fees are undisclosed.

DuvB wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:04 am Sotiriou has potential, that is all. He is not a proven player at L2 level let alone L1.

I wouldn't bust our wage structure to retain him.

I would!

If we paid Ruel £2000 a week, he would repay us in two ways
1- He would score plenty of goals for us...hes much much better than League 2 standard. Those goals may take us into the play offs

2- At the end of the season, we would be able to get at least £800,000 for him, so the extra wages would have been well worth it

As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order

Sotiriou will end up in the Premier League in about 5 or 6 years.....he's that good. I would say to him, we'll give you what you want if you sign a two year contract

Sounds good coyos and you know I’ve been a big supporter of him like you. However, with the impending wage cap in our league or at least muted, we couldn’t offer that much, but you point is valid on potential sell on value I do beleive.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 pm If we paid Ruel £2000 a week, he would repay us in two ways
1- He would score plenty of goals for us...hes much much better than League 2 standard. Those goals may take us into the play offs

2- At the end of the season, we would be able to get at least £800,000 for him, so the extra wages would have been well worth it

As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order

Sotiriou will end up in the Premier League in about 5 or 6 years.....he's that good. I would say to him, we'll give you what you want if you sign a two year contract

Unbelievable, Jeff.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 pm If we paid Ruel £2000 a week, he would repay us in two ways
1- He would score plenty of goals for us...hes much much better than League 2 standard. Those goals may take us into the play offs

2- At the end of the season, we would be able to get at least £800,000 for him, so the extra wages would have been well worth it

As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order

Sotiriou will end up in the Premier League in about 5 or 6 years.....he's that good. I would say to him, we'll give you what you want if you sign a two year contract

So bonuses included let's throw down a quarter of a million pound on wages and bonuses (give and take a few Bob) on an unproven youth player.

Because you guarantee that he'll score plenty of goals for us and then at the end of the season we'll get £800k back.

Do you have next week's EuroMillions numbers too? Or the next winner of the National?

What if Ruel pulls up injured? What if we decide to change tactics and not play to his strength? What happens if transfer fees become a thing of the past in post-Covid World?

There are too many variables in your argument to splash out £250k on him.

I like him, he's direct and different to what we have. But at the minute I wouldn't say that he's much better standard than other forwards we could pick up out there.

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:09 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 pm If we paid Ruel £2000 a week, he would repay us in two ways
1- He would score plenty of goals for us...hes much much better than League 2 standard. Those goals may take us into the play offs

2- At the end of the season, we would be able to get at least £800,000 for him, so the extra wages would have been well worth it

As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order

Sotiriou will end up in the Premier League in about 5 or 6 years.....he's that good. I would say to him, we'll give you what you want if you sign a two year contract

So bonuses included let's throw down a quarter of a million pound on wages and bonuses (give and take a few Bob) on an unproven youth player.

Because you guarantee that he'll score plenty of goals for us and then at the end of the season we'll get £800k back.

Do you have next week's EuroMillions numbers too? Or the next winner of the National?

What if Ruel pulls up injured? What if we decide to change tactics and not play to his strength? What happens if transfer fees become a thing of the past in post-Covid World?

There are too many variables in your argument to splash out £250k on him.

I like him, he's direct and different to what we have. But at the minute I wouldn't say that he's much better standard than other forwards we could pick up out there.

Liked him from my first viewing of him at Burnham Ramblers in a pre season game three years ago and he is going to be a very decent player, but no one can say what he will be worth is a couple of years. If he goes on and turns out to be as good as COYOs thinks we could get a nice sell on with a few riders on top for appearances etc. Trouble is If you are going to pay him an elevated wage now to keep him you are also going to be paying an elevated agent fee. IMHO the damage has already been done should have given him two or three year contract last season on his potential. Lack of foresight from the transfer committee.

Reminds me of Aaron McClean who we released on afree and who went on to have a decent EFL career.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:29 pm

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:09 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 pm

Reminds me of Aaron McClean who we released on afree and who went on to have a decent EFL career.

Be fair ,
Ruel hasnt broken his legs 3 or 4 times in 2/3 years
Before he broke into the 1st team .

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:39 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:29 pm

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:09 pm

Reminds me of Aaron McClean who we released on afree and who went on to have a decent EFL career.

Be fair ,
Ruel hasnt broken his legs 3 or 4 times in 2/3 years
Before he broke into the 1st team .

And he still managed to play 500+ games in his career and score goals at a reasonable level.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:53 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:39 pm

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:29 pm



Reminds me of Aaron McClean who we released on afree and who went on to have a decent EFL career.

Be fair ,
Ruel hasnt broken his legs 3 or 4 times in 2/3 years
Before he broke into the 1st team .

And he still managed to play 500+ games in his career and score goals at a reasonable level.

Yup but not at Orient.
At Orient his bones snapped alot.
Fair to him & us to have a change .
Dont forget he got 4 years wages without
Dazzling .
Only 2 goals in 40 games over 4 years
1999-2003 .

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 pm If we paid Ruel £2000 a week, he would repay us in two ways
1- He would score plenty of goals for us...hes much much better than League 2 standard. Those goals may take us into the play offs

2- At the end of the season, we would be able to get at least £800,000 for him, so the extra wages would have been well worth it

As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order

Sotiriou will end up in the Premier League in about 5 or 6 years.....he's that good. I would say to him, we'll give you what you want if you sign a two year contract

''As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order''
Yes it was a strange decision to change tack and give Alabi another chance.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:06 am

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:53 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:39 pm

Be fair ,
Ruel hasnt broken his legs 3 or 4 times in 2/3 years
Before he broke into the 1st team .

And he still managed to play 500+ games in his career and score goals at a reasonable level.

Yup but not at Orient.
At Orient his bones snapped alot.
Fair to him & us to have a change .
Dont forget he got 4 years wages without
Dazzling .
Only 2 goals in 40 games over 4 years
1999-2003 .

He only made 4 or 5 starts here the rest were named on the bench and yes he had bad luck with injury, but he ended up at Peterborough and scored 71 in 157 games. They could obviously see something in him we couldn't.

All things considered, Ruel will be a big loss.

Top of the JES wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:29 pm

Tent Keague wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:09 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:19 pm If we paid Ruel £2000 a week, he would repay us in two ways
1- He would score plenty of goals for us...hes much much better than League 2 standard. Those goals may take us into the play offs

2- At the end of the season, we would be able to get at least £800,000 for him, so the extra wages would have been well worth it

As an aside, it was unforgivable, that for over half the season, he was behind Alabi in the pecking order

Sotiriou will end up in the Premier League in about 5 or 6 years.....he's that good. I would say to him, we'll give you what you want if you sign a two year contract

So bonuses included let's throw down a quarter of a million pound on wages and bonuses (give and take a few Bob) on an unproven youth player.

Because you guarantee that he'll score plenty of goals for us and then at the end of the season we'll get £800k back.

Do you have next week's EuroMillions numbers too? Or the next winner of the National?

What if Ruel pulls up injured? What if we decide to change tactics and not play to his strength? What happens if transfer fees become a thing of the past in post-Covid World?

There are too many variables in your argument to splash out £250k on him.

I like him, he's direct and different to what we have. But at the minute I wouldn't say that he's much better standard than other forwards we could pick up out there.

Liked him from my first viewing of him at Burnham Ramblers in a pre season game three years ago and he is going to be a very decent player, but no one can say what he will be worth is a couple of years. If he goes on and turns out to be as good as COYOs thinks we could get a nice sell on with a few riders on top for appearances etc. Trouble is If you are going to pay him an elevated wage now to keep him you are also going to be paying an elevated agent fee. IMHO the damage has already been done should have given him two or three year contract last season on his potential. Lack of foresight from the transfer committee.

Reminds me of Aaron McClean who we released on afree and who went on to have a decent EFL career.

Nothing like Aaron. He had to drop down to non league for a few years to kick start his career.
Ruel will be going to someone in the divisions above.

All this talk of paying Ruel £2k per week is a bit much. But if his current contract is paying him less than, say, Alabi was on, that’s a disgrace and nothing short of age discrimination.

Age and experience is Important.

Bet the people who want to offer Ruel £2k a week are the same ones who moan about young players being given “too much too soon” when they sign their first big contract

Age and experience is important but so is talent. The people in charge will obviously have thier views and opinions on Ruel and his value. There is no guarantee that he will become a player of quality but i would rather pay him £3.000.00 a week than two average journeyman £1.500.00 a week each with no sell on value.

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:12 am Age and experience is important but so is talent. The people in charge will obviously have thier views and opinions on Ruel and his value. There is no guarantee that he will become a player of quality but i would rather pay him £3.000.00 a week than two average journeyman £1.500.00 a week each with no sell on value.

Well said fella.

DuvB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:43 am Age and experience is Important.

As is ability.

Trouble with paying 3k a week is it would break the wage structure. Nobody is going to be on 3k a week at Orient in lg2

AckneyAwks wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:12 am Age and experience is important but so is talent. The people in charge will obviously have thier views and opinions on Ruel and his value. There is no guarantee that he will become a player of quality but i would rather pay him £3.000.00 a week than two average journeyman £1.500.00 a week each with no sell on value.

£3k per week? Steady on.

What forwards did we have on our books last season?

Angol - 24 year old, 60 league game starts and 33 goals
Wilkinson 24 year old, 58 league game starts and 18 goals
Harold - stats not needed, experience not in question
Alabi - 25 years old, 70 league starts, 25 goals (basically 1 good season)
Johnson - 27 year old, 28 league starts, 11 goals (included his time in scotchland but not his non league career)
Ruel - 19 years old,

I think that's it, isn't it?

There is no reason why Ruel should not be on an equal wage with Angol or Wilkinson. Link it to performances and goals and could justify him being the biggest earner out of the lot.

Can you imagine being Ruel last season, working your bollox off in training only to find out you haven't made the squad yet again (because Alabi is sitting on the bench where you should be). Then going out on loan and doing the business, coming back and finally getting your chance in ourt team, play really well and score goals, only to have a cart horse like Johnson sign, presumably on much more money, and go ahead of you in the pecking order?

The only one of our forward line who had experience was Harold, the rest were inexperienced, untried and untested to various degrees.

There is no reason why Ruel should not be on an equal wage with Angol or Wilkinson. Link it to performances and goals and you could quite easily justify him being the biggest earner out of the lot.

If you’d actually make a 20-year-old who’s played 12 games the club's highest paid player, you may want to ask yourself “why am I not a professional football manager?”