Independent Leyton Orient Forum

DonaldRocks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:18 am

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:05 am

DonaldRocks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:55 am


Seriously, who gives a flying f*** about the stock market at this moment in time.

It’s the barometer of the global economy and the only clue we have on what the real world thinks of Trump. Ranting and raving about Trump the bogey man is a barometer of your mental health but meaningless otherwise.

In normal times, I would agree with some of your rational, but these are not normal times. Take a step back and reflect.

The economy is what provides millions of people with livelihoods, makes them able to feed their families, buy clothes, live decent lives. A weak economy leads to unemployment, poverty, health issues and deaths. It is important all of the time. It is the reason why countries are keen to get back to the new normal as soon as possible. It’s not about making a few people richer but allowing millions of ordinary folk the chance for a decent life.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:10 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:53 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 10:13 pm Trump has declared via his twitter account that he will declare Antifa as a terrrosist organisation.

It seems the only Person Trump hasnt banned or blamed yet is

Santa Claus .

And if Joe Biden becomes the next President what would he do . ? Bugger all I suppose . Just stand back twiddling his thumbs while things goes up in smoke .

Hypothetical nonsense spouting.

Hopefully if Biden is elected (don't get me wrong, I dislike him immensely) it will pave the way for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - a decent human-being; not to mention what the USA and wider-World needs moving forward.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:44 am Meanwhile U.S stock markets are close to all time highs. The rest of the world- not even got half back from last years peak. All these comments are overreactions. Money continues to put into U.S assets and the U.S dollar. Do you think that would be the case if Trump was so bad. Nope.

You took the position of liking Trump cause it winds up lefties and have excused any behaviour ever since. The guy is an actual crazy person. His enablers on the right are aware of this but so morally bankrupt that they don't care as long as he advances a few of their key causes (deregulate, protect accumulated wealth, promote underqualified ideologues to supreme court and change abortion laws).

His son in law, amidst being the architect of the middle East peace process, reforming criminal justice system, building the wall with Mexico, overseeing relations with China and running Trump's campaign, has floated the idea there'll be no elections in November. That same son in law is in charge of procurement of PPE , staffed by volunteers from venture capitalist firms, and which has a VIP Comms list which republican donors can get onto for prioritised notifications of availability of kit.

HeyO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:16 am

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:10 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:53 pm

It seems the only Person Trump hasnt banned or blamed yet is

Santa Claus .

And if Joe Biden becomes the next President what would he do . ? Bugger all I suppose . Just stand back twiddling his thumbs while things goes up in smoke .

Hypothetical nonsense spouting.

Well if Biden wins the next election it will be interesting to see what he does differently if a similar situation arises again

I would be amazed if Trump didn’t get a second term. Biden in my opinion is weak opposition and a non-entity. But who knows, I didn’t expect Trump to become President, though I can see why he is popular with many Americans.

But he does generate a lot of hatred amongst others, marmite style.

What I do find interesting is that despite his recent drop in performance ratings, 6 points is massive, it still compares well with Obama, Bush, Clinton at their peak. The guy must be doing something right.

Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:28 am I would be amazed if Trump didn’t get a second term. Biden in my opinion is weak opposition and a non-entity. But who knows, I didn’t expect Trump to become President, though I can see why he is popular with many Americans.

But he does generate a lot of hatred amongst others, marmite style.

Like you possibly.

HeyO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am

Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:28 am I would be amazed if Trump didn’t get a second term. Biden in my opinion is weak opposition and a non-entity. But who knows, I didn’t expect Trump to become President, though I can see why he is popular with many Americans.

But he does generate a lot of hatred amongst others, marmite style.

Like you possibly.

What I struggle with is that I generally try to put forward an idea. Now I don’t expect all, or indeed any, people to agree. Fine by me. None of us know everything and I certainly don’t.

What I get in return is not an opposing view, but insults. I find that very sad indeed.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:44 am Meanwhile U.S stock markets are close to all time highs. The rest of the world- not even got half back from last years peak. All these comments are overreactions. Money continues to put into U.S assets and the U.S dollar. Do you think that would be the case if Trump was so bad. Nope.

Bit of a generalisation as certain industries are still struggling, but you're right the market is performing much better than expected. The NASDAQ in particular is soaring - I cashed out part of my investment in Zoom yesterday as its stock price hit $200 having invested at around $115

Airlines, travel/events organisers and certain energy companies are still well below their peak but haven't crashed through the floor as predicted a few months ago, and many NYSE stocks are nearly back to pre-Rona highs

DonaldRocks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:55 am

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:44 am Meanwhile U.S stock markets are close to all time highs. The rest of the world- not even got half back from last years peak. All these comments are overreactions. Money continues to put into U.S assets and the U.S dollar. Do you think that would be the case if Trump was so bad. Nope.

Seriously, who gives a flying f*** about the stock market at this moment in time.

Plenty of small-scale investors and SMEs who rely on it as a source of income I'd imagine

Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:36 am

HeyO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am

Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:28 am I would be amazed if Trump didn’t get a second term. Biden in my opinion is weak opposition and a non-entity. But who knows, I didn’t expect Trump to become President, though I can see why he is popular with many Americans.

But he does generate a lot of hatred amongst others, marmite style.

Like you possibly.

What I struggle with is that I generally try to put forward an idea. Now I don’t expect all, or indeed any, people to agree. Fine by me. None of us know everything and I certainly don’t.

What I get in return is not an opposing view, but insults. I find that very sad indeed.

I apologise openly to you Dohnut if any of my posts have ever offended you.

I, indeed maybe many of us, may be guilty of 'typing out loud' when that first response clicks into our head.

Not trying to defend myself but what comes across in forums, is perhaps not always a true representation of a persons' usual character. If you knew me personally, despite our differences of opinion on some things, I'm sure we'd get along fine. Afterall, we do obviously have one particular love in common as a starting point! Believe it or not, I'm pretty happy go lucky and generally very laid back!

Once again, my genuine and sincere apologies if I've ever oversptepped the mark - towards you; or indeed, towards anybody else.

I absolutely abhor bullying in any form; in the same way I despise violence, warfare, inhumanity and racism.

The last thing I would ever want is for you to leave this board at times, perhaps feeling bullied or downtrodden; or indeed, if I ever made you upset or feel anxious. That has never been my intent.

With every best wish dear chap.

Baz

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:04 pm

Dohnut wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:36 am

HeyO wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am

Like you possibly.

What I struggle with is that I generally try to put forward an idea. Now I don’t expect all, or indeed any, people to agree. Fine by me. None of us know everything and I certainly don’t.

What I get in return is not an opposing view, but insults. I find that very sad indeed.

I apologise openly to you Dohnut if any of my posts have offended you.

I, indeed maybe many of us, may be guilty of 'typing out loud' when that first response clicks into our head.

Not tryng to defend myself but what comes across in forums, is perhaps not always a true representation of a persons' usual character. If you knew me personally, despite our differences of opinion on some things, I'm sure we'd get along fine. Afterall, we do obviously have one particular love in common as a starting point! Believe it or not, I'm pretty happy go lucky and generally very laid back!

Once again, my genuine and sincere apologies if I've ever oversptepped the mark - towards you; or indeed, towards anybody else.

I absolutely abhor bullying in any form; in the same way I despise inhumanity and racism.

The last thing I would ever want is for you to leave this board at times, perhaps feeling bullied or downtrodden; or indeed, ever made you upset or anxious. That has never been my intent.

With every best wish dear chap.

Baz

I second this post too. Sometimes, things can be typed in a moment but I sincerely am not trying to offend.

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:58 am

DonaldRocks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:55 am

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:44 am Meanwhile U.S stock markets are close to all time highs. The rest of the world- not even got half back from last years peak. All these comments are overreactions. Money continues to put into U.S assets and the U.S dollar. Do you think that would be the case if Trump was so bad. Nope.

Seriously, who gives a flying f*** about the stock market at this moment in time.

Plenty of small-scale investors and SMEs who rely on it as a source of income I'd imagine

So, not people who actually create wealth, but people who - essentially - speculate on others wealth creation? Not having a pop - just trying to understand.

I don't think I'm that stupid, but I don't see how a stock market index is an indicator of economic wellbeing. Isn't it just an indication of how a small number of gamblers think other gamblers are going to feel about particular companies or industry sectors in the future?

I've no experience at all in "the city", so it's genuine curiosity on my part - can anyone explain to me - as jargon-free as possible, please - how the actions / decisions of a relatively small number of people can show that a country is getting it right economically? How many small-scall investors are there, compared to the population as a whole, anyway? - presumably a great number of these "buy/sell" decisions are, to an extent, following the herd. Is that it? it the wisdom of crowds ?

In the UK not so much. In the U.S they only care about two things. The stock market and the military. The stock market has mass participation and is a good indicator to the health or otherwise of its citizens- the biggest consumers in the world. It matters.

** in the U.S they also care about shooting each other, stuffing their obese bellies with food and praying to a thing called a god but didn’t sound so good saying all them as well.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:35 pm

Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:58 am

DonaldRocks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:55 am


Seriously, who gives a flying f*** about the stock market at this moment in time.

Plenty of small-scale investors and SMEs who rely on it as a source of income I'd imagine

So, not people who actually create wealth, but people who - essentially - speculate on others wealth creation? Not having a pop - just trying to understand.

I don't think I'm that stupid, but I don't see how a stock market index is an indicator of economic wellbeing. Isn't it just an indication of how a small number of gamblers think other gamblers are going to feel about particular companies or industry sectors in the future?

I've no experience at all in "the city", so it's genuine curiosity on my part - can anyone explain to me - as jargon-free as possible, please - how the actions / decisions of a relatively small number of people can show that a country is getting it right economically? How many small-scall investors are there, compared to the population as a whole, anyway? - presumably a great number of these "buy/sell" decisions are, to an extent, following the herd. Is that it? it the wisdom of crowds ?

I’d be interested in an answer too. Though with 630,000 companies listed on the stock markets world wide I wouldn’t use the term relatively small. Though I do agree it’s the minority of companies like the UK top 100, that get the attention. Probably because they account for high numbers of investors and have massive turnovers. So likely to be of the greater influence.

Beradogs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:05 pm In the UK not so much. In the U.S they only care about two things. The stock market and the military. The stock market has mass participation and is a good indicator to the health or otherwise of its citizens- the biggest consumers in the world. It matters.

** in the U.S they also care about shooting each other, stuffing their obese bellies with food and praying to a thing called a god but didn’t sound so good saying all them as well.

Thanks for coming back to me.

So in the US, it's a measure of what? their savings (the cash they can afford to tie up in stocks?) - so when they're feeling the pinch more people sell their stocks to release cash so the price goes down - when those people have got cash to spare they tend to buy stock - lots of buyers making the price go up ? Is that close to it?

Correct. To be fair, there is a lot of central bank intervention at the moment as well with central banks pumping liquidity into the system meaning there are also buying financial assets but yes, U.S retail mom and pop remain buyers = they are feeling comfortable, happy with their lives, Trump, despite what we think of him here.

Ok - that makes sense. I suppose then it's a measure of what that particular group are seeing/feeling - but if it's a big enough, and representative enough, sample, then it would work as a measure. It must also, presumably, be influenced by how institutional or any overseas investors are playing too.

They are an odd lot.

I'd have thought a better measure on "financial health" of a nation would be the movement in amounts in all savings/investments, combined with movement in personal debt. i.e. are people wealthier this month than last. I'd imagine such a measure would be pretty easy to come by (barring any cash under mattresses !)

They don’t do savings in the U.S. Live cheque by cheque and when they have something spare they buy stocks ( or burgers)

" It’s not about making a few people richer but allowing millions of ordinary folk the chance for a decent life."

So Trump is going to be the man for that then? I thought it was only Socialists who were accused of having utopian ideas.

Mikero