Independent Leyton Orient Forum

faldO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:22 am Please confirm whether or not you will accept a vaccine should one be produced in this country.

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:58 am

kokomO wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:42 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:12 pm Don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather my phone told me I'd been near someone who tested positive than not know. As others have said, Big Brother knows where your phone is anyway.

I think people who don't want to be tracked have a somewhat over-inflated idea of how important they are in the big picture of things.

Why would I take the risk in trusting anything this government is involved in?

So if it was Labour Government you would

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:54 am The most paranoid group (the old) are also the most at risk, so it's a shame they don't understand that this will have more benefits than not using it.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:33 pm
What if your phone told you you'd been near someone who tested positive, as you've said. Then, until you took your test and that test came back negative, you were unable to go into a shop or on public transport because your phone screen didn't display a "green - all clear" message, or the police might ask you to display your phone and fine you for being outside before you got a negative test result back?

The person you'd been near might have been the other side of a wall, or travelling in a car in the same traffic queue as you, or walking past your car.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:10 am I have read that most other countries apps are de centralized, meaning all the info is kept on the phone...far less of a security risk, but our governments app is centralised, where we havent a clue who will see all our personal data.
i will not install this app under any circumstances, and if at a later date, there is pressure on me, I will throw my smartphone away. I have got 4 working 'dumbphones' from 15 -20 yrs ago, and I will use one of those instead

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:34 am I'm not sure that I'd class myself as paranoid about the app, but the points I made yesterday about the app still stand.

StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:33 pm
What if your phone told you you'd been near someone who tested positive, as you've said. Then, until you took your test and that test came back negative, you were unable to go into a shop or on public transport because your phone screen didn't display a "green - all clear" message, or the police might ask you to display your phone and fine you for being outside before you got a negative test result back?

The person you'd been near might have been the other side of a wall, or travelling in a car in the same traffic queue as you, or walking past your car.

I'm not really bothered about the "they're using it to track your movements" aspect - Apple and google have that covered already, and it doesn't really bother me. I'm really concerned with how this proposed app will inevitably lead to the situation where anyone getting the alert will have their freedom significantly curtailed (and I mean "real" freedoms, like being able to get food and travel etc)

All of these restrictions (blocking you from shops or public transport until you go green) sound "reasonable" - after all, someone who's been "near" someone who has tested positive is more of a risk that someone who doesn't know whether they have been, aren't they? So the app really would open the door to far greater restrictions being placed on the individual than we're seeing at present.

So how would anyone feel about suffering far greater restrictions to their lives, based purely on the fact that their mobile phone found a bluetooth signal from another mobile phone (regardless of actual risk of contamination - they could be in another room, remember)? I'd imagine I'm as far greater risk of contamination from using a shopping trolley that an infected person used half an hour ago and who gripped the handle after coughing into their hand, than I am from someone sitting in the offices next door.

Comparing the app to a vaccine is fatuous - it's only the ultra conspiraloons who believe Bill Gates is putting a microscopic golden microchip in the vaccine to control our minds. In the real world, the vaccine is prophylactic, and of course I'd be happy to be given a properly tested one, whereas the proposed app - especially the centralised version touted by UK Govt, - is only a (flawed) method of giving us all a badge.

The bit about the fact it's Dominic Cummings' mate who's profiting from the contract (which hasn't even had to go to tender) is a side issue - and hardly surprising.

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:43 am

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:10 am I have read that most other countries apps are de centralized, meaning all the info is kept on the phone...far less of a security risk, but our governments app is centralised, where we havent a clue who will see all our personal data.
i will not install this app under any circumstances, and if at a later date, there is pressure on me, I will throw my smartphone away. I have got 4 working 'dumbphones' from 15 -20 yrs ago, and I will use one of those instead

I've also read about how and where "the data" would be kept. It's the nub of the issue really. But what is "the data"? How much info about us will be captured by this app? Until we know this and deem it reasonable, and appropriate for it's purpose (or not) then I don't think we can make a decision about using it or not. Whether we will get this level of transparency is unknown at present.

If it "only" shows where an anonymous device has been close to another anonymous device marked (somehow) as belonging to an infected person then it could add value as a tool. But as has been widely written, it needs to be just one component of the track & trace operation. It cannot be used exclusively to drive the track & trace operation. The Countries where track & trace has been most successful have heavily used detectives to provide expertise and this would need to be the case in the UK as well.

So, for me, whilst I would seriously consider using the app I would do so only if I knew - what is the data, where and how would it be kept, how long would it be kept, how would the app be used, what would be the track & trace process, who would be involved in the track & trace process. None of that should be difficult to supply. Convincing people to use the app would be a lot easier if all this was disclosed - and asap.

kokomO wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:42 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:12 pm Don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather my phone told me I'd been near someone who tested positive than not know. As others have said, Big Brother knows where your phone is anyway.

I think people who don't want to be tracked have a somewhat over-inflated idea of how important they are in the big picture of things.

Why would I take the risk in trusting anything this government is involved in?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:27 am Government refused apple and googles help with the app. Wonder why.

They built it from the ground up. With an app there's tonnes of bugs on release, never mind one thats been rushed out. It will be a disaster.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:16 am

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:58 am

kokomO wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:42 pm

Why would I take the risk in trusting anything this government is involved in?

So if it was Labour Government you would

After you Tax.

[/quote
Hi Dis wouldn't bother me who was in power, Just want to get rid of the threat from this virus, remember I'm older than you so could hit me worse, having said that I believe both me and younger son caught this in February, put me out of action for 8 days, son for 5. stay healthy mate

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:22 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:54 am The most paranoid group (the old) are also the most at risk, so it's a shame they don't understand that this will have more benefits than not using it.

Really, where's your proof that it's the oldies who are most paranoid?

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:54 am The most paranoid group (the old) are also the most at risk, so it's a shame they don't understand that this will have more benefits than not using it.

kokomO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:50 am

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:58 am

kokomO wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:42 pm

Why would I take the risk in trusting anything this government is involved in?

So if it was Labour Government you would

I wouldn't for any government that's as catistrophically bad, lying, cheating, dishonest as this one, whoever it was, no.

JimbO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:57 am

kokomO wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:42 pm

o-no wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:12 pm Don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather my phone told me I'd been near someone who tested positive than not know. As others have said, Big Brother knows where your phone is anyway.

I think people who don't want to be tracked have a somewhat over-inflated idea of how important they are in the big picture of things.

Why would I take the risk in trusting anything this government is involved in?

Would've thought it was obvious, because it will save lives.

Harlow wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:36 am Could any of us have imagined just a few months ago that the world would be in its current situation. People are dying, lives turned upside down, jobs lost.

So the govt comes up with something that should help. It doesn't cost us anything but it could help save your life or the lives or others. But NO you won't use it. It is intrusive, insecure, I didn't vote Tory, whatever the reason. Don't be so f*cking selfish. If we all install the App it will help overcome the CV crisis (and be in place should the need arise in future).

If you still don't install it, I hope you or your loved ones don't get ill, I would hate you to need the NHS, or worse not be able to be treated because the NHS is over whelmed

And remember, Daddy/Grandad what did you do to help in the Corona Virus crisis? Nothing son!

That's my rant, yeah I do feel strongly about it and no, I did not vote for Boris. I think successive govts have screwed us with a lack of pandemic preparation but we have to do everything to get through this emergency.

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 11:42 am

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:22 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:54 am The most paranoid group (the old) are also the most at risk, so it's a shame they don't understand that this will have more benefits than not using it.

Really, where's your proof that it's the oldies who are most paranoid?

My own experience of this board is sufficient

Harlow wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:36 am Could any of us have imagined just a few months ago that the world would be in its current situation. People are dying, lives turned upside down, jobs lost.

So the govt comes up with something that should help. It doesn't cost us anything but it could help save your life or the lives or others. But NO you won't use it. It is intrusive, insecure, I didn't vote Tory, whatever the reason. Don't be so f*cking selfish. If we all install the App it will help overcome the CV crisis (and be in place should the need arise in future).

If you still don't install it, I hope you or your loved ones don't get ill, I would hate you to need the NHS, or worse not be able to be treated because the NHS is over whelmed

And remember, Daddy/Grandad what did you do to help in the Corona Virus crisis? Nothing son!

That's my rant, yeah I do feel strongly about it and no, I did not vote for Boris. I think successive govts have screwed us with a lack of pandemic preparation but we have to do everything to get through this emergency.

banqo wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 11:57 am

Harlow wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 10:36 am Could any of us have imagined just a few months ago that the world would be in its current situation. People are dying, lives turned upside down, jobs lost.

So the govt comes up with something that should help. It doesn't cost us anything but it could help save your life or the lives or others. But NO you won't use it. It is intrusive, insecure, I didn't vote Tory, whatever the reason. Don't be so f*cking selfish. If we all install the App it will help overcome the CV crisis (and be in place should the need arise in future).

If you still don't install it, I hope you or your loved ones don't get ill, I would hate you to need the NHS, or worse not be able to be treated because the NHS is over whelmed

And remember, Daddy/Grandad what did you do to help in the Corona Virus crisis? Nothing son!

That's my rant, yeah I do feel strongly about it and no, I did not vote for Boris. I think successive govts have screwed us with a lack of pandemic preparation but we have to do everything to get through this emergency.

With you all the way mate, too much politicising as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a sh*t who knows where I am,
I just want to get through this and if this helps 0.1% I'll be doing it!!

JimbO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 12:38 pm Same people spouting off that the government didn't do contact tracing in the first place are now the ones making it harder for them to do so.

JimbO wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 12:38 pm Same people spouting off that the government didn't do contact tracing in the first place are now the ones making it harder for them to do so.