Independent Leyton Orient Forum

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:40 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:30 pm Not one can coherently explain how we gain from leaving. Not one.

Sovereignty, Get Back Control Of Our Borders and Fishing Quotas.

That is just part of it but many other reasons why i voted to leave.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:39 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:18 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:33 pm

Spens statement is still bolleaux though isn't it. He's just being contentious as per. Total Dimwit.

Here we go, personal insults because you are not able to have a civilised debate.

@spen666
Well what else do you expect on this left wing dominated re-mainer forum ? Many of my friends ( including my girl friend, she is Asian, been living here a long time ) have non British origins, yet also voted to leave the EU. Problem is that many people on here just live in their own little London Metropolitan left wing bubble talking to few other than like minded friends etc. I think the recent General election is more a reflection of general opinions than those expressed on this forum, especially in the parts of England that are far removed from London and the big Cities. Seems like the only thing that many on here can do is to place insults towards anyone who thinks differently to how they do, like little kids throwing the toys out of their prams, need to do some growing up.

I would hope that whether left wing or right wing or in between people could actually debate without making false accusations or personal abuse. The sad thing is those on the left fail to realise it is their abusive behaviour that drives people into the arms of the brexiteers and tories. I am quite sure Brexit would not have happened if people hadn't been shouted down as racist or Little Englanders when they tried to discuss issues of concern about our former membership of the EU.

EH16 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:29 pm We keep getting told it's not right to just label leavers as stupid. And now they're peeing their pants cos the colour of a passport is changing. Hmmmmmmmm.

Really? The only people going on about the colour of the passport seem to be remainers inventing allegations they impute upon remainers.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:55 pm

Lucky7 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:08 pm.....

English is the most commonly spoken foreign language in 19 out of 25 European Union countries (excluding the UK and Ireland) In the EU25, working knowledge of English as a foreign language is clearly leading at 38%, followed by German and French (at 14% each), Russian and Spanish (at 6% each), and Italian (3%).

Add my French and German to that

Work ? Yes

No idea if those figures are correct, but if they are its interesting that 4th most common language spoke, is from a nation that has never been part of the EU.

Says a lot about what has happened in the Continent of Europe over the period since the Berlin Wall fell

Eh, what does it say?

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:18 pm

EH16 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:29 pm We keep getting told it's not right to just label leavers as stupid. And now they're peeing their pants cos the colour of a passport is changing. Hmmmmmmmm.

Really? The only people going on about the colour of the passport seem to be remainers inventing allegations they impute upon remainers.

So some people are that interested as to what colour the new UK passport is.......really ?
Certainly of no interest to me as to if it is pink, green, brown, blue or whatever colour it happens to be, a lot of fuss about nothing.

Will we revert back from the pink driving licence cards to the green paper ones as well?

Whether one voted Remain or Leave, the fact we’ve left, so one would expect us to issue our own passports again. Hence it doesn’t seem a subject for big discussion, so I’ll leave my contribution at that.

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:28 am Whether one voted Remain or Leave, the fact we’ve left, so one would expect us to issue our own passports again. Hence it doesn’t seem a subject for big discussion, so I’ll leave my contribution at that.

Exactly and what colour the passport will be is irrelevant.

Is it just a random coincidence that they’re blue then?

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:16 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:39 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:18 pm

Here we go, personal insults because you are not able to have a civilised debate.

@spen666
Well what else do you expect on this left wing dominated re-mainer forum ? Many of my friends ( including my girl friend, she is Asian, been living here a long time ) have non British origins, yet also voted to leave the EU. Problem is that many people on here just live in their own little London Metropolitan left wing bubble talking to few other than like minded friends etc. I think the recent General election is more a reflection of general opinions than those expressed on this forum, especially in the parts of England that are far removed from London and the big Cities. Seems like the only thing that many on here can do is to place insults towards anyone who thinks differently to how they do, like little kids throwing the toys out of their prams, need to do some growing up.

I would hope that whether left wing or right wing or in between people could actually debate without making false accusations or personal abuse. The sad thing is those on the left fail to realise it is their abusive behaviour that drives people into the arms of the brexiteers and tories. I am quite sure Brexit would not have happened if people hadn't been shouted down as racist or Little Englanders when they tried to discuss issues of concern about our former membership of the EU.

It’s good that there is no abusive behaviour from those on the right.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:16 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:39 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:18 pm

Here we go, personal insults because you are not able to have a civilised debate.

@spen666
Well what else do you expect on this left wing dominated re-mainer forum ? Many of my friends ( including my girl friend, she is Asian, been living here a long time ) have non British origins, yet also voted to leave the EU. Problem is that many people on here just live in their own little London Metropolitan left wing bubble talking to few other than like minded friends etc. I think the recent General election is more a reflection of general opinions than those expressed on this forum, especially in the parts of England that are far removed from London and the big Cities. Seems like the only thing that many on here can do is to place insults towards anyone who thinks differently to how they do, like little kids throwing the toys out of their prams, need to do some growing up.

I would hope that whether left wing or right wing or in between people could actually debate without making false accusations or personal abuse. The sad thing is those on the left fail to realise it is their abusive behaviour that drives people into the arms of the brexiteers and tories. I am quite sure Brexit would not have happened if people hadn't been shouted down as racist or Little Englanders when they tried to discuss issues of concern about our former membership of the EU.

Yep, valid point.

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:07 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:16 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:39 pm

@spen666
Well what else do you expect on this left wing dominated re-mainer forum ? Many of my friends ( including my girl friend, she is Asian, been living here a long time ) have non British origins, yet also voted to leave the EU. Problem is that many people on here just live in their own little London Metropolitan left wing bubble talking to few other than like minded friends etc. I think the recent General election is more a reflection of general opinions than those expressed on this forum, especially in the parts of England that are far removed from London and the big Cities. Seems like the only thing that many on here can do is to place insults towards anyone who thinks differently to how they do, like little kids throwing the toys out of their prams, need to do some growing up.

I would hope that whether left wing or right wing or in between people could actually debate without making false accusations or personal abuse. The sad thing is those on the left fail to realise it is their abusive behaviour that drives people into the arms of the brexiteers and tories. I am quite sure Brexit would not have happened if people hadn't been shouted down as racist or Little Englanders when they tried to discuss issues of concern about our former membership of the EU.

It’s good that there is no abusive behaviour from those on the right.

Hot heads on both sides of the political spectrum.

Excellent name for an album.

Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:55 am Excellent name for an album.

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:40 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:30 pm Not one can coherently explain how we gain from leaving. Not one.

Sovereignty, Get Back Control Of Our Borders and Fishing Quotas.

Strange. I thought the UK was already responsible for controlling it's borders. Admittedly it's not very good at it as there is thought to be anywhere between 0.3 to 0.6 million illegal immigrants in the UK. Can't see how that's the EU's fault. As for fishing quotas, why does every Brexiteer quote this as a major factor? Fishing accounts for 0.1 % of the UK economy. Remove all quotas and who knows, it might even rise to 0.15%. But only for a limited time until our fisherman fish the seas to extinction as they almost did in the 70's. Thankfully the EEC imposed quotas helped stocks to recover. Having said that, if Cummings really does want a deal with the EU, the first thing that will be given up is exclusive fishing rights for UK fisherman in UK waters.

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:28 am one would expect us to issue our own passports again.

We were in the first place. HM Passport Office since 2006 (before 2013 it was called the Identity and Passport Service, before 2006 there was the UK Passport Service and UK Passport Agency, and probably other names before that too).

Celtient wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:18 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:40 pm

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:30 pm Not one can coherently explain how we gain from leaving. Not one.

Sovereignty, Get Back Control Of Our Borders and Fishing Quotas.

Strange. I thought the UK was already responsible for controlling it's borders. Admittedly it's not very good at it as there is thought to be anywhere between 0.3 to 0.6 million illegal immigrants in the UK. Can't see how that's the EU's fault. As for fishing quotas, why does every Brexiteer quote this as a major factor? Fishing accounts for 0.1 % of the UK economy. Remove all quotas and who knows, it might even rise to 0.15%. But only for a limited time until our fisherman fish the seas to extinction as they almost did in the 70's. Thankfully the EEC imposed quotas helped stocks to recover. Having said that, if Cummings really does want a deal with the EU, the first thing that will be given up is exclusive fishing rights for UK fisherman in UK waters.

You can dismiss fishing quoters all you like but it seems to be just as important to the French and the rest of the EU so it can't be that irrelevant.

One of the problems is that if you try and point out that people were mislead into voting leave you are accused of criticising them personally. Everyone who voted did what they thought was best for them and their families with the information they had at the time, the thing is that both sides in the campaign told a whole bus load of lies, it was just that the leave campaign were better at it.

So now we are leaving and the 'Sit down, Shut-up you Lost brigade' will brook no criticism of how it is being done, because the ballot only said "Leave or Stay" everything after that is being invented, mostly with the intentions of the leave voters being impuned in all kinds of directions. Everyone should be able to have a say about what is being done now without being abused as a 'remoaner' or any other such epithet.

Mikero

I believe that fishing is totally privatised, with none of the proceeds of the fishing industry benefiting the people of this country. So why bexiteers keep going on about it amazes me. Why do i care if Charlie Bloggs who owns fishing boats, makes a load of dosh, or he doesn't...it doesn't affect me one way or another.....long as i can buy fish when i want it, I dont care which individual made money from it

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:45 pm

Celtient wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:18 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:40 pm

Sovereignty, Get Back Control Of Our Borders and Fishing Quotas.

Strange. I thought the UK was already responsible for controlling it's borders. Admittedly it's not very good at it as there is thought to be anywhere between 0.3 to 0.6 million illegal immigrants in the UK. Can't see how that's the EU's fault. As for fishing quotas, why does every Brexiteer quote this as a major factor? Fishing accounts for 0.1 % of the UK economy. Remove all quotas and who knows, it might even rise to 0.15%. But only for a limited time until our fisherman fish the seas to extinction as they almost did in the 70's. Thankfully the EEC imposed quotas helped stocks to recover. Having said that, if Cummings really does want a deal with the EU, the first thing that will be given up is exclusive fishing rights for UK fisherman in UK waters.

You can dismiss fishing quoters all you like but it seems to be just as important to the French and the rest of the EU so it can't be that irrelevant.

I my opinion the biggest reason for leaving is that it would give the government the chance to bring in legislation that the Euopean Court of Human Rights would have found them guilty for had we still been members. This is now being reinforced by allowing courts in this country to overturn any rulings the Euro court makes, not just the Supreme Court( Enemies of the people) but any court.

Mikero

I think you mean the European Court of Justice (or the Court of Justice of the European Union, to give it its proper name). The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) is nothing to do with the EU - it is a court established by the European Convention of Human Rights, which was initiated nearly 70 years ago by the Council of Europe (currently 47 members including the UK, Russia and others, far larger than the EU).

As this Supreme Court page says, "The UK's exit from the European Union does not change its membership of the Council of Europe, its being a signatory to the ECHR, or the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights, as these are separate from the European Union".

Are you telling me we've still got to put up with all that Human Rights stuff and nonsense even after voting to leave Europe?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:45 pm

Celtient wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:18 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:40 pm

Sovereignty, Get Back Control Of Our Borders and Fishing Quotas.

Strange. I thought the UK was already responsible for controlling it's borders. Admittedly it's not very good at it as there is thought to be anywhere between 0.3 to 0.6 million illegal immigrants in the UK. Can't see how that's the EU's fault. As for fishing quotas, why does every Brexiteer quote this as a major factor? Fishing accounts for 0.1 % of the UK economy. Remove all quotas and who knows, it might even rise to 0.15%. But only for a limited time until our fisherman fish the seas to extinction as they almost did in the 70's. Thankfully the EEC imposed quotas helped stocks to recover. Having said that, if Cummings really does want a deal with the EU, the first thing that will be given up is exclusive fishing rights for UK fisherman in UK waters.

You can dismiss fishing quoters all you like but it seems to be just as important to the French and the rest of the EU so it can't be that irrelevant.

Exactly. Some may think it's not so important but our fishermen will be going head over eels about it.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:04 pm I believe that fishing is totally privatised, with none of the proceeds of the fishing industry benefiting the people of this country. .....

The ultimate socialist view point



Hate to tell you , but privatised industries do benefit thr country. Those employed in such industries earn wages which they spend in the UK and thus help to boost the UK economy. Thuse benefitting the people of this country

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:37 pm Are you telling me we've still got to put up with all that Human Rights stuff and nonsense even after voting to leave Europe?

Not sure where you voted to leave Europe?

The rest of us voted on whether to leave the EU. We still remain part of Europe