Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:52 pm Just maybe our trust is a good one? It's not rocket science is it? We have good schools, we have good open spaces, we have good doctors all under tory control. No sign of any left wing zealots where I live, just good services.

RedO wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:42 pm

Are you any nearer to deciding who you’re going to vote for yet, out of interest?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:51 pm Where do you live Thor?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:43 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

Mikero wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:46 am Politicians by their nature don't seem to understand demographics and this is particularly true of Health and Social care. I suppose it part of the tetchy 'we don't need experts' when, like a naughty child, they are told they are wrong. The present situation was predicted many years ago as the demographic of the population was getting older, yes Boris there are more peole using it, we knew that it would happen, but you made it worse by not setting enough funds aside so that it could be coped with. Austerity made it worse by underfunding social care and placing more families in poverty, yes the poor get ill because they live in bad conditions and have less food.

Why are there not enough GPs? A look at the demographic of GPs will show exactly how many would be reaching retirement age and when, but this was ignored by sucessive governments who made no attempt to increase training places to cope with these losses. They just filled some of the gaps with doctors from overseas. I any government ever gets immigration down to tens of thousands they will all have to be doctors. Many of the retiring GPs had been partners in their own practices, but younger doctors do not want the onus of running a practice, with all its problems of renting buildings, hiring staff and paying enormous heating bills. The are happier doing half a dozern sessions a week in someone elses surgery.

This has all led to many surgery closures, in Brighton we have gone from over fifty seven years ago to under forty now, in each case it causes distress and disruption. I have been involved in two closures from the point of veiw of helping to set up advice sessions for displaced patients. They were not fun evenings.

On the point of 'overpaid penpushers'. There are organisational norms for the number of people that one person can manage. These 'teams' are what turn, layer by layer, into the pyramid structure of the organisation. If you try and go over these norms productivity plummets because there too many things for the supervisor to do. This is part of the problem in the NHS, the huge list of unfilled vacancies, in the thousands, will include many management jobs unfilled because the wages are much less than other areas of the economy. Should not a senior in the NHS not have the same sort of remuneration as one in a private company if they have the same number of staff?

Mikero

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:43 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:43 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:09 pm Hang on, Pretti Patel is gonna have a go at plumbing new depths:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 11741.html

cockhat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:39 pm She is one piece of sh*t!
Tories showing their true right wing colours.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:03 pm

Mikero wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:46 am Politicians by their nature don't seem to understand demographics and this is particularly true of Health and Social care. I suppose it part of the tetchy 'we don't need experts' when, like a naughty child, they are told they are wrong. The present situation was predicted many years ago as the demographic of the population was getting older, yes Boris there are more peole using it, we knew that it would happen, but you made it worse by not setting enough funds aside so that it could be coped with. Austerity made it worse by underfunding social care and placing more families in poverty, yes the poor get ill because they live in bad conditions and have less food.

Why are there not enough GPs? A look at the demographic of GPs will show exactly how many would be reaching retirement age and when, but this was ignored by sucessive governments who made no attempt to increase training places to cope with these losses. They just filled some of the gaps with doctors from overseas. I any government ever gets immigration down to tens of thousands they will all have to be doctors. Many of the retiring GPs had been partners in their own practices, but younger doctors do not want the onus of running a practice, with all its problems of renting buildings, hiring staff and paying enormous heating bills. The are happier doing half a dozern sessions a week in someone elses surgery.

This has all led to many surgery closures, in Brighton we have gone from over fifty seven years ago to under forty now, in each case it causes distress and disruption. I have been involved in two closures from the point of veiw of helping to set up advice sessions for displaced patients. They were not fun evenings.

On the point of 'overpaid penpushers'. There are organisational norms for the number of people that one person can manage. These 'teams' are what turn, layer by layer, into the pyramid structure of the organisation. If you try and go over these norms productivity plummets because there too many things for the supervisor to do. This is part of the problem in the NHS, the huge list of unfilled vacancies, in the thousands, will include many management jobs unfilled because the wages are much less than other areas of the economy. Should not a senior in the NHS not have the same sort of remuneration as one in a private company if they have the same number of staff?

Mikero

I worked most of my life in the private sector and the answer to your question about NHS pay is: No they shouldn't be paid the same as the private sector. They should be paid more.

This is because they are better managers who make far better use of limited resources and achieve remarkable results. The private sector, especially banking, insurance, financial services and other similar parasitic activities are sclerotic inefficient businesses with poor man management.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:12 pm I think you need to back up Para 1 with some stats.

I've been self employed for 10 years now and I agree it has greatly improved my quality of life. I take a lot more holidays and if the weather is looking good I take days off to go camping and fishing.

Luckily with a few astute property deals and stashing it away into pensions when I was working I'm in a healthy position. You can still put money into a pension and insure with one of the sclerotic institutions mentioned above for sickness.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:04 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:12 pm I think you need to back up Para 1 with some stats.

I've been self employed for 10 years now and I agree it has greatly improved my quality of life. I take a lot more holidays and if the weather is looking good I take days off to go camping and fishing.

Luckily with a few astute property deals and stashing it away into pensions when I was working I'm in a healthy position. You can still put money into a pension and insure with one of the sclerotic institutions mentioned above for sickness.

Surely as a wealth builder, you will be voting Tory as they are the party for people with wealth and aspirations. Your above post certainly conflicts with your Marxists view. Very strange.