Tories reach new low

[BoniO]

Just maybe our trust is a good one? It's not rocket science is it? We have good schools, we have good open spaces, we have good doctors all under tory control. No sign of any left wing zealots where I live, just good services.

Ever wondered why a Tory stronghold can provide better services than a poor run-down inner city labour borough? Might it have something to do with a slight imbalance in budgets? Hint - the answer rhymes with less (and that's what the run-down borough gets even though it's needs are much greater).

[Thor]

That may well be true, but its also about living within your means is it not? My council for example did not raise council tax for something like 7 years, services are good, my grass verge gets cut every few weeks now and more frequently in the growing season. My street is cleaned every week with the road sweeper machines, I guess it helps we don't have cars on the road. Services are not cut, it's a clean and tidy place to live. If they can do it why can't others?

I remember reading earlier this year about some council up north with hundreds of millions of cash locked down cos of woodford. When that council is struggling why are they sitting on so much cash?

I do believe it comes down to who runs your council. I've lived under labour councils, I've lived under tory councils, I've lived under lib dems and the tory ones are run better, from my experience. Labour are the worst run ones, why is that?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Are you any nearer to deciding who you’re going to vote for yet, out of interest?

[Long slender neck]

Where do you live Thor?

[Thor]

Are you any nearer to deciding who you’re going to vote for yet, out of interest?

Green Party

[Thor]

Where do you live Thor?

The garden of england.

[Mikero]

Politicians by their nature don't seem to understand demographics and this is particularly true of Health and Social care. I suppose it part of the tetchy 'we don't need experts' when, like a naughty child, they are told they are wrong. The present situation was predicted many years ago as the demographic of the population was getting older, yes Boris there are more peole using it, we knew that it would happen, but you made it worse by not setting enough funds aside so that it could be coped with. Austerity made it worse by underfunding social care and placing more families in poverty, yes the poor get ill because they live in bad conditions and have less food.

Why are there not enough GPs? A look at the demographic of GPs will show exactly how many would be reaching retirement age and when, but this was ignored by sucessive governments who made no attempt to increase training places to cope with these losses. They just filled some of the gaps with doctors from overseas. I any government ever gets immigration down to tens of thousands they will all have to be doctors. Many of the retiring GPs had been partners in their own practices, but younger doctors do not want the onus of running a practice, with all its problems of renting buildings, hiring staff and paying enormous heating bills. The are happier doing half a dozern sessions a week in someone elses surgery.

This has all led to many surgery closures, in Brighton we have gone from over fifty seven years ago to under forty now, in each case it causes distress and disruption. I have been involved in two closures from the point of veiw of helping to set up advice sessions for displaced patients. They were not fun evenings.

On the point of 'overpaid penpushers'. There are organisational norms for the number of people that one person can manage. These 'teams' are what turn, layer by layer, into the pyramid structure of the organisation. If you try and go over these norms productivity plummets because there too many things for the supervisor to do. This is part of the problem in the NHS, the huge list of unfilled vacancies, in the thousands, will include many management jobs unfilled because the wages are much less than other areas of the economy. Should not a senior in the NHS not have the same sort of remuneration as one in a private company if they have the same number of staff?

Mikero

[Long slender neck]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

[PoundhillO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

Absolutely disgusting, is this the Political party any decent person should consider voting for ?

[Max B Gold]

Politicians by their nature don't seem to understand demographics and this is particularly true of Health and Social care. I suppose it part of the tetchy 'we don't need experts' when, like a naughty child, they are told they are wrong. The present situation was predicted many years ago as the demographic of the population was getting older, yes Boris there are more peole using it, we knew that it would happen, but you made it worse by not setting enough funds aside so that it could be coped with. Austerity made it worse by underfunding social care and placing more families in poverty, yes the poor get ill because they live in bad conditions and have less food.

Why are there not enough GPs? A look at the demographic of GPs will show exactly how many would be reaching retirement age and when, but this was ignored by sucessive governments who made no attempt to increase training places to cope with these losses. They just filled some of the gaps with doctors from overseas. I any government ever gets immigration down to tens of thousands they will all have to be doctors. Many of the retiring GPs had been partners in their own practices, but younger doctors do not want the onus of running a practice, with all its problems of renting buildings, hiring staff and paying enormous heating bills. The are happier doing half a dozern sessions a week in someone elses surgery.

This has all led to many surgery closures, in Brighton we have gone from over fifty seven years ago to under forty now, in each case it causes distress and disruption. I have been involved in two closures from the point of veiw of helping to set up advice sessions for displaced patients. They were not fun evenings.

On the point of 'overpaid penpushers'. There are organisational norms for the number of people that one person can manage. These 'teams' are what turn, layer by layer, into the pyramid structure of the organisation. If you try and go over these norms productivity plummets because there too many things for the supervisor to do. This is part of the problem in the NHS, the huge list of unfilled vacancies, in the thousands, will include many management jobs unfilled because the wages are much less than other areas of the economy. Should not a senior in the NHS not have the same sort of remuneration as one in a private company if they have the same number of staff?

Mikero

I worked most of my life in the private sector and the answer to your question about NHS pay is: No they shouldn't be paid the same as the private sector. They should be paid more.

This is because they are better managers who make far better use of limited resources and achieve remarkable results. The private sector, especially banking, insurance, financial services and other similar parasitic activities are sclerotic inefficient businesses with poor man management.

[greyhound]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/alex-salmond- ... 29767.html

probably not as low as this

[spen666]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-n ... e-50501097

How low can they go?

What is the problem?


It is the choice of the Dunn family to issue the proceedings against the government. There is no necessity for them to do so. Even if they win this case, it won't change the fact that the alleged driver is out of the jurisdiction and can't be brought back.

In litigation, the loser pays the winners legal costs. Bring a case wholly without legal merit and you should have to pay the winners costs.

If the Dunn family have a case, then they will win their claim and the government will have to pay the winners (the Dunn family's) costs.

If they don't have a case, then they will lose and they should have to pay the winners costs

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Hang on, Pretti Patel is gonna have a go at plumbing new depths:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 11741.html

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Down they go, deeper and deeper

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 12076.html

[PoundhillO]

Hang on, Pretti Patel is gonna have a go at plumbing new depths:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 11741.html

What a joke she is, she can’t defend what is indefensible!

[cockhat]

She is one piece of sh*t!
Tories showing their true right wing colours.

[greyhound]

She is one piece of sh*t!
Tories showing their true right wing colours.

better get used to it then

[Oforever]

Crikey what a raft of daft comments. If you don't support the Conservative party why not look at threads about a party you do support? This board needs to get back to football.

[Still's Carenae]

Politicians by their nature don't seem to understand demographics and this is particularly true of Health and Social care. I suppose it part of the tetchy 'we don't need experts' when, like a naughty child, they are told they are wrong. The present situation was predicted many years ago as the demographic of the population was getting older, yes Boris there are more peole using it, we knew that it would happen, but you made it worse by not setting enough funds aside so that it could be coped with. Austerity made it worse by underfunding social care and placing more families in poverty, yes the poor get ill because they live in bad conditions and have less food.

Why are there not enough GPs? A look at the demographic of GPs will show exactly how many would be reaching retirement age and when, but this was ignored by sucessive governments who made no attempt to increase training places to cope with these losses. They just filled some of the gaps with doctors from overseas. I any government ever gets immigration down to tens of thousands they will all have to be doctors. Many of the retiring GPs had been partners in their own practices, but younger doctors do not want the onus of running a practice, with all its problems of renting buildings, hiring staff and paying enormous heating bills. The are happier doing half a dozern sessions a week in someone elses surgery.

This has all led to many surgery closures, in Brighton we have gone from over fifty seven years ago to under forty now, in each case it causes distress and disruption. I have been involved in two closures from the point of veiw of helping to set up advice sessions for displaced patients. They were not fun evenings.

On the point of 'overpaid penpushers'. There are organisational norms for the number of people that one person can manage. These 'teams' are what turn, layer by layer, into the pyramid structure of the organisation. If you try and go over these norms productivity plummets because there too many things for the supervisor to do. This is part of the problem in the NHS, the huge list of unfilled vacancies, in the thousands, will include many management jobs unfilled because the wages are much less than other areas of the economy. Should not a senior in the NHS not have the same sort of remuneration as one in a private company if they have the same number of staff?

Mikero

I worked most of my life in the private sector and the answer to your question about NHS pay is: No they shouldn't be paid the same as the private sector. They should be paid more.

This is because they are better managers who make far better use of limited resources and achieve remarkable results. The private sector, especially banking, insurance, financial services and other similar parasitic activities are sclerotic inefficient businesses with poor man management.

Max. They are and have been for the last 10 years. This is without there pension and enhanced benefits compared to the private sector.

Having worked in both. Public sector is much better in terms of quality of life, ie - much less time at work. Private sector - working week up to 60 hours, public 35 hours, occasionally more, but much less pressure. I now work for self, no crap, no issues but 45-55 hours a week - quality of life much better. But no sick/holiday or pension contributions.

[Max B Gold]

I think you need to back up Para 1 with some stats.

I've been self employed for 10 years now and I agree it has greatly improved my quality of life. I take a lot more holidays and if the weather is looking good I take days off to go camping and fishing.

Luckily with a few astute property deals and stashing it away into pensions when I was working I'm in a healthy position. You can still put money into a pension and insure with one of the sclerotic institutions mentioned above for sickness.

[Thor]

I think you need to back up Para 1 with some stats.

I've been self employed for 10 years now and I agree it has greatly improved my quality of life. I take a lot more holidays and if the weather is looking good I take days off to go camping and fishing.

Luckily with a few astute property deals and stashing it away into pensions when I was working I'm in a healthy position. You can still put money into a pension and insure with one of the sclerotic institutions mentioned above for sickness.

Surely as a wealth builder, you will be voting Tory as they are the party for people with wealth and aspirations. Your above post certainly conflicts with your Marxists view. Very strange.

[StillSpike]

I'm sure that not everyone on the Titanic's lifeboats were kicking people back into the water as they tried to save themselves. Some were probably offering a hand.

[Max B Gold]

I think you need to back up Para 1 with some stats.

I've been self employed for 10 years now and I agree it has greatly improved my quality of life. I take a lot more holidays and if the weather is looking good I take days off to go camping and fishing.

Luckily with a few astute property deals and stashing it away into pensions when I was working I'm in a healthy position. You can still put money into a pension and insure with one of the sclerotic institutions mentioned above for sickness.

Surely as a wealth builder, you will be voting Tory as they are the party for people with wealth and aspirations. Your above post certainly conflicts with your Marxists view. Very strange.

There is no conflict. I live in a capitalist economy. I have no choice but to work hard and earn some money.

You do know Karl Marx made a lot of money playing the stock exchange don't you?

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

The fannies are still at it.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 6UulWZwlvh

[Adz]

The saddest thing is that the majority will either not know or care about their dirty tricks campaign and they'll still win.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again the law needs to be changed so that political parties are held accountable for lying. Until that happens they'll ride roughshod over the populace