Independent Leyton Orient Forum

The problem is that some people wont go to an FA cup game whatever the price, and will see it as a weekend off and to save on travel ect. The best we could do is 2,500 home fans with 1,000 odd away fans. The crowds vs Gateshead and Telford were decent as they were the latter stages, and would be a good target. No way will we get 4,000 home fans.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:45 pm The problem is that some people wont go to an FA cup game whatever the price, and will see it as a weekend off and to save on travel ect. The best we could do is 2,500 home fans with 1,000 odd away fans. The crowds vs Gateshead and Telford were decent as they were the latter stages, and would be a good target. No way will we get 4,000 home fans.

You’re probably right that we won’t get 4,000 home fans, but if we charge above £10 or full price, I reckon we’d be lucky to get 1,500 and that wouldn’t look great on TV and would affect any atmosphere.
The club needs to at least try and get fans in from both clubs. £5 per head would attract fans especially if it’s the only game on in the area, which is possible on a Sunday.
I would imagine the club will release some info this week.

Its the fa cup, can't believe that people would not e interested cos they've got to shell out.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:49 pm Its the fa cup, can't believe that people would not e interested cos they've got to shell out.

Great opportunity for fans to bring the kids for a quiet Sunday bit of entertainment and maybe a few goals. I’m looking forward to it.

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:05 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:51 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:28 pm

Same gate income.

Only IF halving price leads to doubling the gate...in reality it doesn't

Same gate income is irrelevant as it's the NET proceeds that are shared. Double the crowd will require far more stewards etc so net proceeds to be shared are far less.

You appear to have missed the point being made again.

You only mention gate income. Other income streams would be increased by having twice the amount of people in.

Also, have you apologised to Smendrick?

You miss the point that extra crowds require extra stewarding etc which costs money.

The profit on catering is minimal and will not make up for the extra costs incurred in stewarding etc.


Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:55 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:49 pm Its the fa cup, can't believe that people would not e interested cos they've got to shell out.

Great opportunity for fans to bring the kids for a quiet Sunday bit of entertainment and maybe a few goals. I’m looking forward to it.

Maybe even some of the “Ghost Kidz” might turn up

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:49 pm Its the fa cup, can't believe that people would not e interested cos they've got to shell out.

Any games where season ticket holders have to go out of their way to buy extra tickets will attract less people. Have you been following the FA Cup recently? It's not the 80s anymore.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:15 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:45 pm The problem is that some people wont go to an FA cup game whatever the price, and will see it as a weekend off and to save on travel ect. The best we could do is 2,500 home fans with 1,000 odd away fans. The crowds vs Gateshead and Telford were decent as they were the latter stages, and would be a good target. No way will we get 4,000 home fans.

You’re probably right that we won’t get 4,000 home fans, but if we charge above £10 or full price, I reckon we’d be lucky to get 1,500 and that wouldn’t look great on TV and would affect any atmosphere.
The club needs to at least try and get fans in from both clubs. £5 per head would attract fans especially if it’s the only game on in the area, which is possible on a Sunday.
I would imagine the club will release some info this week.

Don't get me wrong I agree, but even if it was a fiver you would be lucky to get those numbers.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:06 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:49 pm Its the fa cup, can't believe that people would not e interested cos they've got to shell out.

Any games where season ticket holders have to go out of their way to buy extra tickets will attract less people. Have you been following the FA Cup recently? It's not the 80s anymore.

Yes that’s why we need “ FA Cup for a Fiver” or something similar to encourage Season Ticket Holders to go out of their way to buy extra tickets and come along. Let’s see what Kent and Nigel think later this week.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:12 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:06 pm

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:49 pm Its the fa cup, can't believe that people would not e interested cos they've got to shell out.

Any games where season ticket holders have to go out of their way to buy extra tickets will attract less people. Have you been following the FA Cup recently? It's not the 80s anymore.

Yes that’s why we need “ FA Cup for a Fiver” or something similar to encourage Season Ticket Holders to go out of their way to buy extra tickets and come along. Let’s see what Kent and Nigel think later this week.

I'd love to see it but some people just wont turn out for a game where they have to go out of their way to buy another ticket.

It will be a tenner with the North stand for Maldon, the West for home and many the TJS for home if demand dictates.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

Why do Ryanair sell flights for £1?
Why do Arsenal sell League Cup tickets for £10?
Because having no one there gives them no opportunity to upsell.
For FA cup Orient would do well to get 2000 as I experienced, so why not slash the price and get 7000 in and sell to them.
It not every game, it is when you ain't gonna get anyone in.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:17 pm

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:12 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:06 pm

Any games where season ticket holders have to go out of their way to buy extra tickets will attract less people. Have you been following the FA Cup recently? It's not the 80s anymore.

Yes that’s why we need “ FA Cup for a Fiver” or something similar to encourage Season Ticket Holders to go out of their way to buy extra tickets and come along. Let’s see what Kent and Nigel think later this week.

I'd love to see it but some people just wont turn out for a game where they have to go out of their way to buy another ticket.

It will be a tenner with the North stand for Maldon, the West for home and many the TJS for home if demand dictates.

I would imagine this will be the likely scenario, probably no more than 300 to 400 Maldon fans, and I would say 2500 total attendance.

RientO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:39 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

Why do Ryanair sell flights for £1?
Why do Arsenal sell League Cup tickets for £10?
Because having no one there gives them no opportunity to upsell.
For FA cup Orient would do well to get 2000 as I experienced, so why not slash the price and get 7000 in and sell to them.
It not every game, it is when you ain't gonna get anyone in.

Better tell every football club then as clearly they are unable to grasp your economic logic. They clearly are all financially failing.

The fact that halving prices does not double the crowd and that increased crowds bringing huge extra stewarding costs etc seems to be ignored by you, but strangely enough not by those who control the finances of football clubs.

Halving price and doubling fates only results in same gross gate receipts , but what about the huge increase in stewarding costs, medical provision, policing etc. All this comes out of gross become leading to a far lower net income

spen666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:09 am

RientO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:39 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

Why do Ryanair sell flights for £1?
Why do Arsenal sell League Cup tickets for £10?
Because having no one there gives them no opportunity to upsell.
For FA cup Orient would do well to get 2000 as I experienced, so why not slash the price and get 7000 in and sell to them.
It not every game, it is when you ain't gonna get anyone in.

Better tell every football club then as clearly they are unable to grasp your economic logic. They clearly are all financially failing.

The fact that halving prices does not double the crowd and that increased crowds bringing huge extra stewarding costs etc seems to be ignored by you, but strangely enough not by those who control the finances of football clubs.

Halving price and doubling fates only results in same gross gate receipts , but what about the huge increase in stewarding costs, medical provision, policing etc. All this comes out of gross become leading to a far lower net income

Your self-indulgent posts are gross too fella.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:05 pm

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:51 pm

Only IF halving price leads to doubling the gate...in reality it doesn't

Same gate income is irrelevant as it's the NET proceeds that are shared. Double the crowd will require far more stewards etc so net proceeds to be shared are far less.

You appear to have missed the point being made again.

You only mention gate income. Other income streams would be increased by having twice the amount of people in.

Also, have you apologised to Smendrick?

You miss the point that extra crowds require extra stewarding etc which costs money.

The profit on catering is minimal and will not make up for the extra costs incurred in stewarding etc.


Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

I haven’t missed any point. Of course there are additional costs with a bigger crowd. Just as of course there are additional incomes form a bigger crowd, not just the entrance fee. I’m not arguing one way or the other, merely stating it’s not as cut and dried as you’re making out. I haven’t got anywhere near enough information to make a guess as to which way the club should go.

But lots of other good points have been made about reasons why the price should be dropped for this game, it’s not just about the £s on the day.

Also, have you apologised to smendrick yet?

I don't think i would be prepared to pay 20 sovs for a cup 1st round game

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:47 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:05 pm

You appear to have missed the point being made again.

You only mention gate income. Other income streams would be increased by having twice the amount of people in.

Also, have you apologised to Smendrick?

You miss the point that extra crowds require extra stewarding etc which costs money.

The profit on catering is minimal and will not make up for the extra costs incurred in stewarding etc.


Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

I haven’t missed any point. Of course there are additional costs with a bigger crowd. Just as of course there are additional incomes form a bigger crowd, not just the entrance fee. I’m not arguing one way or the other, merely stating it’s not as cut and dried as you’re making out. I haven’t got anywhere near enough information to make a guess as to which way the club should go.

But lots of other good points have been made about reasons why the price should be dropped for this game, it’s not just about the £s on the day.

Also, have you apologised to smendrick yet?

Simple maths.

Club gets say 3000 people paying normal price of £20 = Gate income of £60,000
Club gets 6000 people paying £10 = Gate Income of £60,000


As you have conceded there are additional expenses with higher crowd,

so "quod erat demonstrandum" the net gate receipts to be shared between the clubs is less in the second example.

That isn't taking into account that halving the gate price does not result in doubling of gates. So what you end up with is lower gross gate receipts, higher expenses and significantly lowered net income to be distributed.

The profit on catering etc is minimal. You are talking of a single figure percentage profit on food or drink sold. The extra profit on those things goes no where near covering the loss on net gate receipts

Lots of issues with that hypothesis. Not quite so clear cut. For example not all 3000 will pay £20. Not the 6000 paying £10. The differential between the two scenarios likely becomes closer and catering and other sales closes the gap. But I get the drift.

spen666 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:01 am

Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:58 am

A Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:01 pm
Not correct on the first part, it is entirely up to Leyton Orient as the home club. The rules of the competition state at rule 20 (c) (ii):

"Immediately after the draw is known, the Club playing at home shall decide on the prices of admission, subject to a minimum price of £10.00 for all spectators other than concessions.

The away Club’s spectators can only be charged more than the home Club’s spectators if mutually agreed by both Clubs."

On the last part though, you are correct - 50% of net gate receipts to each club, as per rule 22 (b) (i). I think this has changed from previous years, I can find a reference to a 10% levy some years ago. I also think the 3-way split may have been a Football League play-off thing rather than the FA Cup.

Thanks for clarifying that prices are to be "decided by the home team" and not necessarily "agreed with the visitors" as claimed.

The question was in relation to suggestion of football for a fiver which DOES have to be agreed with the visitors as it is below minimum suggested figure by the FA

I'm afraid you're wrong again, Spen - the £10 minimum charge is not "suggested", it is an absolute minimum with no qualification. There is no provision in the rules for Leyton Orient to set an entrance price lower than £10, there is no provision in the rules to "agree with the visitors" unless Leyton Orient plans to charge its fans (say) £10, and Maldon & Tiptree's fans (say) £10.01 or higher.

The rules are clear - the home club sets the price, the price must be £10 or higher, the away club has no say or consultation provided its fans are charged no more than the home fans.

spen666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:41 am

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:47 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm

You miss the point that extra crowds require extra stewarding etc which costs money.

The profit on catering is minimal and will not make up for the extra costs incurred in stewarding etc.


Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

I haven’t missed any point. Of course there are additional costs with a bigger crowd. Just as of course there are additional incomes form a bigger crowd, not just the entrance fee. I’m not arguing one way or the other, merely stating it’s not as cut and dried as you’re making out. I haven’t got anywhere near enough information to make a guess as to which way the club should go.

But lots of other good points have been made about reasons why the price should be dropped for this game, it’s not just about the £s on the day.

Also, have you apologised to smendrick yet?

Simple maths.

Club gets say 3000 people paying normal price of £20 = Gate income of £60,000
Club gets 6000 people paying £10 = Gate Income of £60,000


As you have conceded there are additional expenses with higher crowd,

so "quod erat demonstrandum" the net gate receipts to be shared between the clubs is less in the second example.

That isn't taking into account that halving the gate price does not result in doubling of gates. So what you end up with is lower gross gate receipts, higher expenses and significantly lowered net income to be distributed.

The profit on catering etc is minimal. You are talking of a single figure percentage profit on food or drink sold. The extra profit on those things goes no where near covering the loss on net gate receipts

Mate, I've not 'conceded' anything - I'm not in an argument with you on this. Not everything in life has to be a battle.

There are some simple maths, although it's got a fair amount to do with economics and price elasticities to be more precise. I reckon you're probably about right with those figures, we may get around 3,000 at full price £20 and would probably struggle to get 6,000 at £10. I've got no idea on the catering contract, nor how many programmes we sell etc, so wouldn't even begin to hazard a guess as to whether that would offset the cost of a few more stewards.

But there's more to it than just the £s on the day for both teams, especially when any difference either way is likely to be pretty negligible. M&T may want to encourage a big attendance from their town(s) to cheer them on and dropping the price to a tenner may well be something they'd go for to help achieve that. We have the opportunity of getting bums on seats in the quest for new/future fans, selling the magic of the FA Cup for just £10 etc. I'm pretty sure both clubs would be up for this.

Also spenvans, have you apologised to Smendrick yet?

BIGRON wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:34 am I don't think i would be prepared to pay 20 sovs for a cup 1st round game

Reckon I'm in the same boat - not got much interest in this game to be honest but yeah, if it's a fiver or a tenner I'll turn up. Full price would stop me bothering.

What will influence my decision to turn up or not is not a few quid but the weather. If it is freezing cold and pi55ing down I don’t think I will bother.

RedO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:47 am

spen666 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:58 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:05 pm

You appear to have missed the point being made again.

You only mention gate income. Other income streams would be increased by having twice the amount of people in.

Also, have you apologised to Smendrick?

You miss the point that extra crowds require extra stewarding etc which costs money.

The profit on catering is minimal and will not make up for the extra costs incurred in stewarding etc.


Why do you think clubs don't halve admission prices every game? Halving admission costs does not double gates and it brings increased costs

I haven’t missed any point. Of course there are additional costs with a bigger crowd. Just as of course there are additional incomes form a bigger crowd, not just the entrance fee. I’m not arguing one way or the other, merely stating it’s not as cut and dried as you’re making out. I haven’t got anywhere near enough information to make a guess as to which way the club should go.

But lots of other good points have been made about reasons why the price should be dropped for this game, it’s not just about the £s on the day.

Also, have you apologised to smendrick yet?

What do you think?

Tickets £10 (£5 concessions, £1 U18s), West Stand and Legends' Lounge only unless demand dictates otherwise: https://www.leytonorient.com/2019/10/28 ... ree-f-c-h/

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:54 pm Sweet. I can do cross country on the Saturday now.

Where's that mate?