Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:09 am**

Orient till I die wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:35 pm
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:18 pm Every experienced manager started somewhere as a novice. Every one. For sure many don’t make it but then again look at how many experienced managers get sacked.

Go with your judgement and hope it works out.
I agree with this 100%. Any manager who is available with league experience under his belt is only available because he’s been sacked from his previous job.

Like Justin, who was sacked from his previous job! (He didn't turn out bad)
And, Fletcher was sacked from his only managerial job at Plymouth/

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:47 am**

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:49 am**

Some people would still prefer Sol Campbell, who has a similar win ratio, but less experience and who hasn't spent the last 8 years learning the ropes.

Crazy.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:15 am**

It appears that Campbell has a UEFA Pro Licence and Fletcher doesn't have a UEFA A yet (according to LinkedIn), it is fair to say that Sol has spent some time learning the ropes.

IMO U23 management is a whole different beast from the professional game, the former has no real pressure on results and the players are easier to deal with as they have something to prove. Using the same analogy Ross Embleton has had something like 20 years preparation as he had no playing career but he will never be as good a mens coach as he is on the youth side.

I couldn't say I preferred Campbell over Fletcher, but I don't see Fletcher as any less of a gamble than if we employed Campbell, Currie, or any other manager with only a season's experience.

Let's face it, if we did get Sol people would be also saying 'great appointment', 'can't believe we would have gone for Fletcher, whos only experience was 7 years ago' and so forth.

Fletcher is an unknown quantity, but it is fair to say it is a good time to take a gamble for everyone concerned. If it does work out, we will have gotten ourselves a good manager who may have some loyalty as we gave him the break he needed. If it doesn't work out, the circumstances will be much better in a years time for us to go for Calderwood, as the demand will be then to go for experience.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:28 am**

Worth also saying that previously a lot of people were wetting their knickers over Ling appointing "a mate"/had worked with extensively before. The fact he hasn't worked with Fletcher should demonstrate that this was an unbiased process looking to offer the vacancy to the best person suited to the role.

An 18 month contract works for all parties. Limits risk if it doesn't work out. And if Fletcher does choose to leave for another team in 18 months then it likely means that's he's done a really good job for us and the club is in a better situation than when he arrived.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:03 am**

eagwgw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:15 am It appears that Campbell has a UEFA Pro Licence and Fletcher doesn't have a UEFA A yet (according to LinkedIn), it is fair to say that Sol has spent some time learning the ropes.

IMO U23 management is a whole different beast from the professional game, the former has no real pressure on results and the players are easier to deal with as they have something to prove. Using the same analogy Ross Embleton has had something like 20 years preparation as he had no playing career but he will never be as good a mens coach as he is on the youth side.

I couldn't say I preferred Campbell over Fletcher, but I don't see Fletcher as any less of a gamble than if we employed Campbell, Currie, or any other manager with only a season's experience.

Let's face it, if we did get Sol people would be also saying 'great appointment', 'can't believe we would have gone for Fletcher, whos only experience was 7 years ago' and so forth.

Fletcher is an unknown quantity, but it is fair to say it is a good time to take a gamble for everyone concerned. If it does work out, we will have gotten ourselves a good manager who may have some loyalty as we gave him the break he needed. If it doesn't work out, the circumstances will be much better in a years time for us to go for Calderwood, as the demand will be then to go for experience.

I doubt the players are easier to deal with. I’d imagine you get some right stroppy little know it alls amongst the ranks of a Premierships U23 team, where some of these kids are earning multiples of what the boss is. I don’t see taking over a group of L2 players being an issue after that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:07 am**

"I doubt the players are easier to deal with. I’d imagine you get some right stroppy little know it alls amongst the ranks of a Premierships U23 team, where some of these kids are earning multiples of what the boss is. I don’t see taking over a group of L2 players being an issue after that."

That's something I hadn't considered. Good post.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:23 am**

Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:49 pm Only one person thought this was a good appointment before it was official. Since it was official a rush of ticking the good appointment box. Something very fishy going on here.

The fans are being won over.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:24 am**

[quote=eagwgw post_id=54317 time=1571296547 user_id=228]
It appears that Campbell has a UEFA Pro Licence and Fletcher doesn't have a UEFA A yet (according to LinkedIn), it is fair to say that Sol has spent some time learning the ropes.

That is wrong and must be out of date as a UEFA B coach cannot take up the role he has, the highest role a UEFA B holder can work at is assistant coach at pro clubs or head coaches of kids at pro clubs up to 16 or head coaches at amateur clubs.

For his role he needs at least UEFA A badge which allows him to manger in the pro game at the levels below the premier league, where a Pro licence is required to manage.

I hope I’ve cleared this up, he therefore must be at least a UEFA A licence holder.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:59 am**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:23 am
Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:49 pm Only one person thought this was a good appointment before it was official. Since it was official a rush of ticking the good appointment box. Something very fishy going on here.
The fans are being won over.

I don't think this is the reason at all. The turnaround in the votes is because since the appointment people are looking at the question in a different way. Now the voting is about whether you are backing the new manager or not which of course we all do.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:01 am**

I think the reasons given by the club and Ling are good ones.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:11 am**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:01 am I think the reasons given by the club and Ling are good ones.

I havent seen the reasons Ling has given. Is there a video or something?

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:16 am**

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:23 am**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:16 am Yes

could you be kind enough to give me a link?

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:24 am**

Give the man a chance you never know he may do good

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:24 am**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:01 am I think the reasons given by the club and Ling are good ones.

Well, they're not going to be bad reasons..

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:28 am**

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:23 am
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:16 am Yes
could you be kind enough to give me a link?

https://www.leytonorient.com/2019/10/16 ... ead-coach/

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:31 am**

I would have been more underwhelmed by some old has been like Colin Calderwood. Fletcher probably has a higher ceiling than Calderwood, as an example, but might be more of a risk. You have to take into account that we are in such a good position as a club, with the vacancy arising due to unforeseen circumstances rather than club issues or poor results. If we get to the end of the season and it hasn't worked out, then oh well we will try again. This season is a free hit in my opinion.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:02 am**

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:31 am I would have been more underwhelmed by some old has been like Colin Calderwood. Fletcher probably has a higher ceiling than Calderwood, as an example, but might be more of a risk. You have to take into account that we are in such a good position as a club, with the vacancy arising due to unforeseen circumstances rather than club issues or poor results. If we get to the end of the season and it hasn't worked out, then oh well we will try again. This season is a free hit in my opinion.

Lot of sense in that view. We won’t go down so a free hit to a degree. The one fly in the ointment will be recruitment. Players will move on in June and it would be nice if Fletcher does well enough to stay and participate in choosing the new recruits. A new man in June and we start all over again.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:31 am**

Orient till I die wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:03 am
Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:49 pm Only one person thought this was a good appointment before it was official. Since it was official a rush of ticking the good appointment box. Something very fishy going on here.

So you spoken to everybody involved in the whole process and all the players and fans and have come to the conclusion that only 1 person thought this was a good appointment ?

I didn't post against Fletcher even though I don't think it's what we need. I mostly posted against Adams because my gut reaction was that he would be a terrible appointment. I'm pleased the owners took my advice.

He's in now and has my full support. Good luck Carol.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:58 am**

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:53 am
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:31 am
Orient till I die wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:03 am

So you spoken to everybody involved in the whole process and all the players and fans and have come to the conclusion that only 1 person thought this was a good appointment ?
I didn't post against Fletcher even though I don't think it's what we need. I mostly posted against Adams because my gut reaction was that he would be a terrible appointment. I'm pleased the owners took my advice.

He's in now and has my full support. Good luck Carol.
Max is Carol a sister of Carl

Please dont bring his family in to this. Theres more than enough trouble already.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:02 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:31 am
Orient till I die wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:03 am
Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:49 pm Only one person thought this was a good appointment before it was official. Since it was official a rush of ticking the good appointment box. Something very fishy going on here.

So you spoken to everybody involved in the whole process and all the players and fans and have come to the conclusion that only 1 person thought this was a good appointment ?
I didn't post against Fletcher even though I don't think it's what we need. I mostly posted against Adams because my gut reaction was that he would be a terrible appointment. I'm pleased the owners took my advice.

He's in now and has my full support. Good luck Carol.

I'm glad you were involved in the recruitment process in a consultancy role. Good work Max

Will be seeing you on the Apprentice with Lord Al, Claude & Karen soon?

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:31 pm**

UpminsterO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:15 pm Max if you are in the other country stuck to England do you not have any sense of humour up there

Oh dear. Humour fail coupled to anti Scotchness.

There is more than one country stuck to Englandshire so Scotland cannot be the other one.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:36 pm**

Forward thinking.

Learnt a lot from his first managerial appointment at 31 and has done well since.

Good luck to him.

Posted: **Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:47 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:31 pm
UpminsterO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:15 pm Max if you are in the other country stuck to England do you not have any sense of humour up there
Oh dear. Humour fail coupled to anti Scotchness.

There is more than one country stuck to Englandshire so Scotland cannot be the other one.

as only Wales and Scotland are stuck to England and Wales is a principality not a country.....

Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?

Re: Carl Fletcher- Good or Bad appointment?