Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I don't think it's that. He's not been too emotional when it's come to criticising other players who aren't called Ling.

I think it's deliberate and done so as a response to comments and questions from the fanbase. Judd has been called out previously, and I believe that was done so as to highlight his flaws and justify the decision to play Ling ahead of him. The same here, some people are demanding Ogie start league games, these comments are made public as a response to that.

I get that. My only problem is the impact it may have on the confidence of these young boys.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:44 am

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:33 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:14 am

The same period where you said we were carrying both central midfielders and that Clay wasn't good enough? Why can it be that a team performance is made of 11 players when we're talking about players you like, but not when it is players you don't like?

Of course.

But I don't think we were carrying Myles at all during that period. I thought he was good.

I think we just have to accept we're never going to agree on this one. I think our treatment of Myles has been pretty shabby and that pre-dates Ross. I can't see Ling going anywhere so think it's for his best that he moves on to fulfil his potential, because I can't see it happening here which is a real shame.

I think Myles Judd is being treated how most 20 year old full backs would be treated at most clubs. The problem is that he was artificially thrown in as a 16/17 year old under the previous regime, and did okay, so Orient fans have an inflated opinion of him. Normally, he would have had 10-15 appearances by this stage of his career.

If we were still a top L1 club, then I would agree with you. But he's found himself as a L1 youth team prospect employed by a non-league/struggling L2 club. In those circumstances, he should have been given many more opportunities to develop than he has.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:48 am

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:44 am

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:33 am

Of course.

But I don't think we were carrying Myles at all during that period. I thought he was good.

I think we just have to accept we're never going to agree on this one. I think our treatment of Myles has been pretty shabby and that pre-dates Ross. I can't see Ling going anywhere so think it's for his best that he moves on to fulfil his potential, because I can't see it happening here which is a real shame.

I think Myles Judd is being treated how most 20 year old full backs would be treated at most clubs. The problem is that he was artificially thrown in as a 16/17 year old under the previous regime, and did okay, so Orient fans have an inflated opinion of him. Normally, he would have had 10-15 appearances by this stage of his career.

If we were still a top L1 club, then I would agree with you. But he's found himself as a L1 youth team prospect employed by a non-league/struggling L2 club. In those circumstances, he should have been given many more opportunities to develop than he has.

He's never played in League 1. He made his debut in league 2.

I've not said he played in League 1?

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:44 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:33 am He said: “I thought it was poor from Shad [Shadrach Ogie] in the build-up in terms of him not quite getting it right with whether he pressed or whether he stayed in and he lost his man. He just started the game slowly in my opinion, which you can argue is a trait of a young player, but you want him to be switched on and that’s why you throw him into environments like this tonight, and unfortunately for him it’s a harsh learning experience for him.

Hardly throwing him under the bus is it?
He's not the only player to have started a game slowly. It's long been a trait over past couple of seasons.

Agreed.

Most of what RE said was in relation to the penalty situation (Ling hasn't conceded one this season - or year I think), but widened it out to not starting the game right.

RE knows the players and what works for one does not work the same way for others. This may just inspire Shad to bigger and better things. Nobody on here knows the player dynamics, so lets leave it to those that do.

Ling seldom gets that close to actually get a tackle in that’s why he is less likely to give away a penalty.

The hypocrisy on here is unbelievable.
The manager can't comment on a young players mistake & yet several boarders on here are so happy to criticise another young player to the point of obsession even when he wasn't playing !

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm The hypocrisy on here is unbelievable.

Marvellous.

Not so, the manager gets paid a handsome salary to manage , while all and sundry on here pay to watch the players.
Sorry, but Embleton has a lot to learn about man management.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm The hypocrisy on here is unbelievable.
The manager can't comment on a young players mistake & yet several boarders on here are so happy to criticise another young player to the point of obsession even when he wasn't playing !

He can criticise who he wants but he chose to use a public video interview put on the club’s official platforms to criticise an 18 year old kid who’s barely played for the first team, let alone start. In that criticism, he stated things his regular right back does on a regular basis.

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:46 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm The hypocrisy on here is unbelievable.
The manager can't comment on a young players mistake & yet several boarders on here are so happy to criticise another young player to the point of obsession even when he wasn't playing !

He can criticise who he wants but he chose to use a public video interview put on the club’s official platforms to criticise an 18 year old kid who’s barely played for the first team, let alone start. In that criticism, he stated things his regular right back does on a regular basis.

Do we know yet when Gilso will be apologising for this?

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:08 pm

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:46 pm

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm The hypocrisy on here is unbelievable.
The manager can't comment on a young players mistake & yet several boarders on here are so happy to criticise another young player to the point of obsession even when he wasn't playing !

He can criticise who he wants but he chose to use a public video interview put on the club’s official platforms to criticise an 18 year old kid who’s barely played for the first team, let alone start. In that criticism, he stated things his regular right back does on a regular basis.

Do we know yet when Gilso will be apologising for this?

Once him, Ross and Martin have a little meeting in Wimpy to discuss their plan

If the comment was not constructive, then I would agree. But it was constructive, so no problems with it.

Just amazed the reaction here.

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:43 pm If the comment was not constructive, then I would agree. But it was constructive, so no problems with it.

Just amazed the reaction here.

Behind closed doors yes, not infront of a camera

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:54 am The Samling definitely has more potential. Im sticking with this one.

For what it's worth, me and the missus refer to him as 'the Samling' as well - have done since he rejoined.

It’s a nice nickname, isn’t it. In my mind it conjours up imagery of a mythical, timid, Tolkienesque creature.

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:44 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:33 am He said: “I thought it was poor from Shad [Shadrach Ogie] in the build-up in terms of him not quite getting it right with whether he pressed or whether he stayed in and he lost his man. He just started the game slowly in my opinion, which you can argue is a trait of a young player, but you want him to be switched on and that’s why you throw him into environments like this tonight, and unfortunately for him it’s a harsh learning experience for him.

Hardly throwing him under the bus is it?
He's not the only player to have started a game slowly. It's long been a trait over past couple of seasons.

Do you actually understand what hypocrisy means?

I bet the players do.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:34 pm It’s a nice nickname, isn’t it. In my mind it conjours up imagery of a mythical, timid, Tolkienesque creature.

Last week I was visiting a house 2 doors down from where Tolkien lived. Beat that.

Was it a small house?

BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:14 am

O my gawd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:17 am AGENDA ALERT
Why do people always have to turn it around to the Lings?
The post is about Ogie. Rightly or wrongly Ross assessed the situation & told it as he saw it. Looks like he will be some player but isn't just ready yet.

Sam Ling plays every week, regardless of how poor he is. Ogie is a kid who has barely played first team football. Nothing to do with agenda, you don’t do that to a kid.

Spot on, it’s disgraceful to do it in public.
Let’s hope the club have learnt from Embleton’s mistake and make sure our new Manager doesn’t make the same mistakes.

RedO wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:34 pm It’s a nice nickname, isn’t it. In my mind it conjours up imagery of a mythical, timid, Tolkienesque creature.

That's exactly what we thought! Inspired by Samwise Gamgee in Lord of the Rings and Samwell Tarly in Game of Thrones.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:50 am It’s funny how I have been castigated on here for expressing the same opinion on our erstwhile DOF for years but now it seems the penny has dropped for others.

Face facts -the situation involving Sam and Martin is farcical and for the players, must be uncomfortable and unsettling.

One of them has to go.

When did we get rid of our DOF?

Ross knows more about the personalities of the players better than anyone on this message board.

If he defends one player against criticism and rebukes another in public, he has done it for a reason. And he knows how each player would react to criticism. Anyone listening to his Orient Outlook Podcast will know that he is an intelligent man and has good emotional intelligence. He knows what he is doing.

I think it's nice that - other than a few exceptions - most fans on here have come out in the defence of Ogie. It must be encouraging for him and the other youngsters to know that we as a fanbase are fully behind them.

We might as well have no opinions then if managers are always assumed to be right.
Steve Davis singled out Koroma in his time here, was that really the best approach to get the best out of him? Backing Davis just because he was boss seems a bit moronic.

There is no argument that Ross knows the players better than any fan, but if he plays 5 at the back again I will continue to say that is wrong going by the skills we have in the side. Similarly I don't really think having a downer on a kid is that right, particularly when the guy had a good game the previous time out and was unlucky to give the penalty away.

Being badly positioned could be a fault of the player but once it has happened so many times this season across a wide number of defenders I'm more inclined to think it's the coaching team that are poor. Think back to Davis, and Jobi saying, 'it's not our fault' - he was right.