Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:29 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:22 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:11 pm

It was perfectly decent before the revamp. All this has done is reduce crowds and increase the minimum amount of games players and fans have to go to.

Was it ?

Take away the year we.got to the semi.& lost to southend
How many games.had we had more than a 1000 at

Not many.
If they hadnt done something it would be lost
Also you get a chance to say we beat wet spam or whoever
if you actually do win

The crowds weren't great but that's true of any cup draw against lower league sides. At least if you lost you were out early and didn't have to play 3 games.

I would be embarrassed to play against West Ham's reserves/kids, and be even more embarrassed to enjoy beating them- it would be demeaning.

If they hadn't done anything, it would have continued as the quiet and harmless Trophy which could get exciting if you did well, but wasn't too taking if you did badly.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:42 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:29 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:22 pm

Was it ?

Take away the year we.got to the semi.& lost to southend
How many games.had we had more than a 1000 at

Not many.
If they hadnt done something it would be lost
Also you get a chance to say we beat wet spam or whoever
if you actually do win

The crowds weren't great but that's true of any cup draw against lower league sides. At least if you lost you were out early and didn't have to play 3 games.

I would be embarrassed to play against West Ham's reserves/kids, and be even more embarrassed to enjoy beating them- it would be demeaning.

If they hadn't done anything, it would have continued as the quiet and harmless Trophy which could get exciting if you did well, but wasn't too taking if you did badly.

This is where most people make a mistake with this competition.
The power in Football both Financially & voting lies with the Premier League.
Everyone thinks its just to assist the big boys to develop young players
I see it differently

The EFL has no power , since the creation of the PL .
It will die if it does not evolve & a lot of you will say Good riddance.

But what happens then ?
2 tiers of premier league football & a mess for what is left.

If the EFL holds a better relationship with the F.A it has a bargaining tool
To increase finances to increase voting power & who knows in the future
a possible take over by the F.A of the EFL & its 3 leagues.

Better for every club financially with luck.

Not supporting a tournament is a detrement to all lower league football.

If your team doesnt want to partake then get knocked out
But if a club must be involved help it make a few quid ( a very few i know)
or break even at the least for a night,
rather than lose money playing in front of a couple of hundred people .

Just an opinion

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:42 pm But if a club must be involved help it make a few quid ( a very few i know)
or break even at the least for a night,
rather than lose money playing in front of a couple of hundred people .

Hawaii Five O wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:19 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:42 pm But if a club must be involved help it make a few quid ( a very few i know)
or break even at the least for a night,
rather than lose money playing in front of a couple of hundred people .

Nice try at guilt-tripping anyone who's thinking of boycotting.

Just one small problem with your logic :Orient can't lose money at the group stage. The efl make up any loses that clubs incur putting on home group stage games.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:18 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:42 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:29 pm

The crowds weren't great but that's true of any cup draw against lower league sides. At least if you lost you were out early and didn't have to play 3 games.

I would be embarrassed to play against West Ham's reserves/kids, and be even more embarrassed to enjoy beating them- it would be demeaning.

If they hadn't done anything, it would have continued as the quiet and harmless Trophy which could get exciting if you did well, but wasn't too taking if you did badly.

This is where most people make a mistake with this competition.
The power in Football both Financially & voting lies with the Premier League.
Everyone thinks its just to assist the big boys to develop young players
I see it differently

The EFL has no power , since the creation of the PL .
It will die if it does not evolve & a lot of you will say Good riddance.

But what happens then ?
2 tiers of premier league football & a mess for what is left.

If the EFL holds a better relationship with the F.A it has a bargaining tool
To increase finances to increase voting power & who knows in the future
a possible take over by the F.A of the EFL & its 3 leagues.

Better for every club financially with luck.

Not supporting a tournament is a detrement to all lower league football.

If your team doesnt want to partake then get knocked out
But if a club must be involved help it make a few quid ( a very few i know)
or break even at the least for a night,
rather than lose money playing in front of a couple of hundred people .

Just an opinion

That argument is very backwards. The very reason that this competition has gone the way it has is because the EFL has been weakened in comparison to the PL. Bending over and accepting what the big clubs dictates in the hope that it curries favour is a recipe for disaster. It would make them think that they can do exactly the same again and have b-teams in the league system.

Would you be in favour of b-teams in the league system if it meant that smaller clubs like ours got a bit more of a handout? Because that is the way that it would be justified.

The sums of money lost by clubs to a boycott are small fry in the grand scheme. If we don't support the competition it will be a failure and will derail the march towards b-teams in the league structure.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:29 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:18 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:42 pm

This is where most people make a mistake with this competition.
The power in Football both Financially & voting lies with the Premier League.
Everyone thinks its just to assist the big boys to develop young players
I see it differently

The EFL has no power , since the creation of the PL .
It will die if it does not evolve & a lot of you will say Good riddance.

But what happens then ?
2 tiers of premier league football & a mess for what is left.

If the EFL holds a better relationship with the F.A it has a bargaining tool
To increase finances to increase voting power & who knows in the future
a possible take over by the F.A of the EFL & its 3 leagues.

Better for every club financially with luck.

Not supporting a tournament is a detrement to all lower league football.

If your team doesnt want to partake then get knocked out
But if a club must be involved help it make a few quid ( a very few i know)
or break even at the least for a night,
rather than lose money playing in front of a couple of hundred people .

Just an opinion

That argument is very backwards. The very reason that this competition has gone the way it has is because the EFL has been weakened in comparison to the PL. Bending over and accepting what the big clubs dictates in the hope that it curries favour is a recipe for disaster. It would make them think that they can do exactly the same again and have b-teams in the league system.

Would you be in favour of b-teams in the league system if it meant that smaller clubs like ours got a bit more of a handout? Because that is the way that it would be justified.

The sums of money lost by clubs to a boycott are small fry in the grand scheme. If we don't support the competition it will be a failure and will derail the march towards b-teams in the league structure.

Backwards then you claim the competition has been weakened by the PL .

Rubbish.

The competition was dead as a dodo unless except a.couple of finals watched by
Bristol rovers & Luton .
I think our F.A trophy final defeat had more watching than most of these over the last few years.


B-teams wont happen in this country .
There will be 2 Premier league divisions & the efl will die

So what happens to the like of us then?

Will you be happy with out a Leyton Orient ?
Im for anything & everything that helps all 92 clubs

We will never get back to 1 club 1 vote
But the way the PL has all the power
Means the efl is in its death throes.
Better to try & save all clubs & be taken over
by the F.A who might think
That league 2 & 3 isn't that sh*t after all

Maybe we can takeover & run it all

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:39 pm My point is a simoke one

To many peoole onky see a 1 sided argument of
"Its onky of benefit to the PL clubs .

I don't hapoen to think that.

I think there is far more scooe in this than people
think & is far more beneficial to the smaller clubs than the PL clubs.

Having said that , fans protesting at the
participation of there own clubs is a bit of a joke .

Its an excuse to not cough up
Id wish people would say it as it is.

The PL/ FA would be harmed far more positively by fans boycotting the F.A. Cuo which when a PL club gets drawn against a club like us , its a B/youth Squad & a coupke of 1st teamers.

Wont happen though as most fanssee it as some kind of glamorous trophy.

Remember this thing we get to keep.more than percentage wise than we do for the fa cup

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:56 pm We're not protesting Orient participating, we're protesting against the b-teams- that is the whole point.

I find it very offensive that you think it is an 'excuse' to not pay £7.

Lady Luck wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:21 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:56 pm We're not protesting Orient participating, we're protesting against the b-teams- that is the whole point.

I find it very offensive that you think it is an 'excuse' to not pay £7.

Yep, me too. Especially as the £7 I would have paid for the ticket if I wasn't boycotting has been donated to the JE3 foundation.

And I'm so, so far from being the only one; all over the country, fans who are boycotting this competition because of the B teams are donating entry fees to other causes.

Grimsby and Scunthorpe fans are even holding their own alternative game, to raise money for 2 charities while they boycott.

But yeah, it's all about saving a few quid

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:29 pm

All this cretinous guff about it being a protest is a R***r misnomer !!

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:37 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:29 pm

All this cretinous guff about it being a protest is a R***r misnomer !!

Did you miss the fact that this is happening all over the country - and also in Scotland? It's not really your place to decide whether what lots of people are doing is a protest or not, is it? If they say they're doing it as a protest, it's a protest.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:06 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:37 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:29 pm

All this cretinous guff about it being a protest is a R***r misnomer !!

Did you miss the fact that this is happening all over the country - and also in Scotland? It's not really your place to decide whether what lots of people are doing is a protest or not, is it? If they say they're doing it as a protest, it's a protest.

A protest that WILL NOT achieve not a
single solitary thing.

Pointless..

As for happening everywhere

A sheep gets startled by a dogs bark & runs
All his chums run to .
Pointless.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:08 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:06 pm

StillSpike wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:37 pm

Did you miss the fact that this is happening all over the country - and also in Scotland? It's not really your place to decide whether what lots of people are doing is a protest or not, is it? If they say they're doing it as a protest, it's a protest.

A protest that WILL NOT achieve not a
single solitary thing.

Pointless..

As for happening everywhere

A sheep gets startled by a dogs bark & runs
All his chums run to .
Pointless.

That attitude is certainly not going to achieve anything.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:12 pm You ok, tuffers?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:50 pm No one protest about anything, it won’t make a difference, just sit back and accept everything you disagree with. Foolish.

point nine one eight wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:28 pm I'm glad I went, decided not to let the boycott lobby win, Surprised at our performance. Took Ogie 10-15 minutes to get up to scratch, from then on no problem, felt sorry for Harold his strike partner Alibi was no where near him when required (Hercules his horse would have done better,) Alibi couldn't score in a brothel, missed three goals including one on one with keeper empty goal hit post. Marsh ok did nothing wrong. Southend were worse than crap, however we were the better team, Happe and Gorman scored, Southend even managed to get a player sent off. In this competition, good grief.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:33 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:50 pm No one protest about anything, it won’t make a difference, just sit back and accept everything you disagree with. Foolish.

Protest for something worthwhile
Not a mickey mouse competition that no one really gives a f*ck about.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:35 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:33 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:50 pm No one protest about anything, it won’t make a difference, just sit back and accept everything you disagree with. Foolish.

Protest for something worthwhile
Not a mickey mouse competition that no one really gives a f*ck about.

Retaining the integrity of the football pyramid is pretty worthwhile, would you not agree?