Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:26 pm Why doesn't Parliament pass a bill, something like "Emergency Re-Nationalisation of Public Utilities act" in which it outlines the Nationalisation of the Water Companies. It could stipulate that this is necessary because of the lack of investment in Infrastructure due to excessive dividends paid to shareholders - as such the Water Companies have failed in their duty to maintain and modernise the infrastructure to meet modern requirements. The Water Companies would be compulsorily purchased as an emergency measure to ensure needed investment was made. The needed investment, not performed by the Water Companies, would be very expensive and this cost would be taken into account against purchase price. Shareholders would run a mile and ditch shares overnight.

I know this isn't how it's normally done. Max and Hoover have given good explanations. But why not change the rules in favour of the UK population rather than money grabbing Companies and Shareholders? Or do we just continue to soak it up and watch more sewage dumps in our rivers and the sea whilst costs soar.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:29 pm But what about the Markets?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:33 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:26 pm Why doesn't Parliament pass a bill, something like "Emergency Re-Nationalisation of Public Utilities act" in which it outlines the Nationalisation of the Water Companies. It could stipulate that this is necessary because of the lack of investment in Infrastructure due to excessive dividends paid to shareholders - as such the Water Companies have failed in their duty to maintain and modernise the infrastructure to meet modern requirements. The Water Companies would be compulsorily purchased as an emergency measure to ensure needed investment was made. The needed investment, not performed by the Water Companies, would be very expensive and this cost would be taken into account against purchase price. Shareholders would run a mile and ditch shares overnight.

I know this isn't how it's normally done. Max and Hoover have given good explanations. But why not change the rules in favour of the UK population rather than money grabbing Companies and Shareholders? Or do we just continue to soak it up and watch more sewage dumps in our rivers and the sea whilst costs soar.

My guess is that this, and just about anything else that could signal renationalisation, would trigger reactions across global currency and gilt markets and result in a wave a second-order detrimental consequences to the UK economy, institutional investors and the public.

Just about everyone, even Tory voters, acknowledge that most privatisation has been a disaster. Nationalisation of utilities is popular across almost all constituencies to the degree that even Reform UK hint at it (but only because they know they'll never have to implement it).

The truth is that, once you embark down the road of privatisation and deregulation, going back on yourself requires an almost revolutionary act that mainstream politicians will just not be willing to take. The game is rigged so that any reversal could result in as much pain, if not more, than what privatisation has already delivered. It's really hard to unf*ck yourself.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:40 pm It'd make the numbers go the wrong way, the markets would 'lose confidence'

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:41 pm
I agree with all of that. But if we just shrug our shoulders and say "Hmm, looks difficult" we change nothing. I just don't accept that re-nationalisation is impossible. We're planning to do it with the railways aren't we. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I've read that the UK is the only Country Worldwide to have sold off it's water supply. It's a basic necessity for life. Why on Earth would we leave this to a Corporate entity?

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:33 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:26 pm Why doesn't Parliament pass a bill, something like "Emergency Re-Nationalisation of Public Utilities act" in which it outlines the Nationalisation of the Water Companies. It could stipulate that this is necessary because of the lack of investment in Infrastructure due to excessive dividends paid to shareholders - as such the Water Companies have failed in their duty to maintain and modernise the infrastructure to meet modern requirements. The Water Companies would be compulsorily purchased as an emergency measure to ensure needed investment was made. The needed investment, not performed by the Water Companies, would be very expensive and this cost would be taken into account against purchase price. Shareholders would run a mile and ditch shares overnight.

I know this isn't how it's normally done. Max and Hoover have given good explanations. But why not change the rules in favour of the UK population rather than money grabbing Companies and Shareholders? Or do we just continue to soak it up and watch more sewage dumps in our rivers and the sea whilst costs soar.

My guess is that this, and just about anything else that could signal renationalisation, would trigger reactions across global currency and gilt markets and result in a wave a second-order detrimental consequences to the UK economy, institutional investors and the public.

Just about everyone, even Tory voters, acknowledge that most privatisation has been a disaster. Nationalisation of utilities is popular across almost all constituencies to the degree that even Reform UK hint at it (but only because they know they'll never have to implement it).

The truth is that, once you embark down the road of privatisation and deregulation, going back on yourself requires an almost revolutionary act that mainstream politicians will just not be willing to take. The game is rigged so that any reversal could result in as much pain, if not more, than what privatisation has already delivered. It's really hard to unf*ck yourself.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:45 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:41 pm
I agree with all of that. But if we just shrug our shoulders and say "Hmm, looks difficult" we change nothing. I just don't accept that re-nationalisation is impossible. We're planning to do it with the railways aren't we. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I've read that the UK is the only Country Worldwide to have sold off it's water supply. It's a basic necessity for life. Why on Earth would we leave this to a Corporate entity?

Renationalisation is possible. It's just that it would be made (deliberately) very painful. So much so that there's a good chance the party that implemented it would be voted out of office at the next election.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:46 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:33 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:26 pm Why doesn't Parliament pass a bill, something like "Emergency Re-Nationalisation of Public Utilities act" in which it outlines the Nationalisation of the Water Companies. It could stipulate that this is necessary because of the lack of investment in Infrastructure due to excessive dividends paid to shareholders - as such the Water Companies have failed in their duty to maintain and modernise the infrastructure to meet modern requirements. The Water Companies would be compulsorily purchased as an emergency measure to ensure needed investment was made. The needed investment, not performed by the Water Companies, would be very expensive and this cost would be taken into account against purchase price. Shareholders would run a mile and ditch shares overnight.

I know this isn't how it's normally done. Max and Hoover have given good explanations. But why not change the rules in favour of the UK population rather than money grabbing Companies and Shareholders? Or do we just continue to soak it up and watch more sewage dumps in our rivers and the sea whilst costs soar.

My guess is that this, and just about anything else that could signal renationalisation, would trigger reactions across global currency and gilt markets and result in a wave a second-order detrimental consequences to the UK economy, institutional investors and the public.

Just about everyone, even Tory voters, acknowledge that most privatisation has been a disaster. Nationalisation of utilities is popular across almost all constituencies to the degree that even Reform UK hint at it (but only because they know they'll never have to implement it).

The truth is that, once you embark down the road of privatisation and deregulation, going back on yourself requires an almost revolutionary act that mainstream politicians will just not be willing to take. The game is rigged so that any reversal could result in as much pain, if not more, than what privatisation has already delivered. It's really hard to unf*ck yourself.

There is some truth in what you say but not reversing a highly damaging clusterfuck just because it involves pain isn't a reason not to do it. Much in the same way as its not a reason to not have a revolution just because some people will die.

Also, it's not a matter of mainstream politicians having the boottle to push through change. Its a matter of them having been captured lock, stock and barrel. They are the political manifestation of the corporates that control our lives.

Dunners wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 1:02 pm The railways are owned by Network Rail, which is a state-controlled non-profit company. What is privatised (with one or two exceptions I think) are the train services. These were tendered as franchises however, during Covid, the franchise agreements were pretty much all converted into contractor/operator licences. As and when these expire, bringing them back into a state-controlled entity would not be such a big deal.

However, quangos like Network Rail just add an additional layer of complexity and cost to the operation, so it's not the same as being directly managed by a state department. Also, based on my experience of rail travel in other countries, I think a system of state-owned railways, and a balance of state-owned and private train operators can work quite well.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:36 pm But in reality.... this would affect a handful of Companies who control our Water and Waste. All of these Companies have failed to maintain the infrastructure appropriately. Their shareholders must know this - they'd be pretty stupid not to, it's hardly a secret - so the Shareholders also bear the responsibility of the Companies failings. I don't see why upsetting some shareholders and corrupt/inept Water Companies would rattle the market unduly.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 1:43 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:36 pm But in reality.... this would affect a handful of Companies who control our Water and Waste. All of these Companies have failed to maintain the infrastructure appropriately. Their shareholders must know this - they'd be pretty stupid not to, it's hardly a secret - so the Shareholders also bear the responsibility of the Companies failings. I don't see why upsetting some shareholders and corrupt/inept Water Companies would rattle the market unduly.

Because that's not the way. You can't just go around do things the wrong way.

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 4:55 pm I’m assuming that, aside from writing to TW to tell them I genuinely hate them for bending me over a barrel like this, there’s nothing to be done?

faldO wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 5:30 pm

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 4:55 pm I’m assuming that, aside from writing to TW to tell them I genuinely hate them for bending me over a barrel like this, there’s nothing to be done?

Are you metered?

The first thing I'd check is whether the increase is accurate. Everyone's bills are going up but is it a huge hike from what you currently pay? If you've got an online account with them you can get a fairly detailed breakdown. At least see whether what they are doing is correct based on your usage and the price increases.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:48 pm Shop around mate. See if anyone else is doing any deals at the moment before you renew.