Independent Leyton Orient Forum

That doesn't make the criticism any less thick when it's about a manager and a style that has obviously been highly successful.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:59 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:50 pm I don't think the opening post is such a 'daft' question because we play more for show. Don't get me wrong I love watching our play and having more possession of the ball than our opponents. But, like I've said before there's far too much emphasis on tippy tapping our way up to the penalty area and not enough emphasis on killer passes, movement and more bodies in the box. In other words rather than always looking good mix up our play a bit more.

It is a daft question. He also calls our possession based approach 'tippy tappy' football, which is equally daft.

If you read into it, it's a bit of a tongue in cheek question but at the same time saying that we have to change a bit if we want to win games. And that, i believe.That's how I interpret it, anyway.
As far as 'tippy tappy' goes it's just a modern footballing term to identify a teams style of play. You know this. Nothing detrimental.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:36 pm That doesn't make the criticism any less thick when it's about a manager and a style that has obviously been highly successful.

Quite right, he took all the plaudits when we won the league and deservedly so. Now that we have been in a relatively long period of dreary and lacklustre performances he has to expect the criticisms.
I might add, I am certainly not calling for a change of manager. Not at this moment in time, anyway.

We are a team very low on confidence
We are a team with no creativity
We are a team missing key players in key attacking areas of the pitch, wings and no No.9 or No.10.
I know it’s
But that’s the facts!

Ruel is our only forward goal threat, and to be fair he has done well this season but Piggot has been poor, Shaq is not the answer, more of an impact player from bench to grab a goal.
Drinan is Drinan and is def not the answer.

If you look at our squad of players and starting 11 every match can you honestly pick someone who will score?

When you have wingers, you can play out from the back from the GK, and can beat the press with one touch passing from the back and set up attacks by getting the ball to your wide creative players.

Even with Graham & Theo, we still pinged in crosses, and still struggled to score, but at least we had an attacking threat.

With no width in the team and no creativity, we can’t do this.
El Miz can pick up the ball and run with ball, but his only option is get the ball wide to Theo, but guess what, opposition know that and can nullify that threat.

Only option after Theo is play the ball to Piggot to hold up and play in runners, but the problem is we don’t have runners from midfield and Piggot loses the ball too easy, as he will never get the ball down and beat defenders, so we are fooked going forward.

All the above means when we conced a goal, it heaps pressure on the defenders, one mistake, one goal, means we will get beat or at best get a draw.

So in my opinion we play to avoid defeat not to win!

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:59 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:50 pm I don't think the opening post is such a 'daft' question because we play more for show. Don't get me wrong I love watching our play and having more possession of the ball than our opponents. But, like I've said before there's far too much emphasis on tippy tapping our way up to the penalty area and not enough emphasis on killer passes, movement and more bodies in the box. In other words rather than always looking good mix up our play a bit more.

It is a daft question. He also calls our possession based approach 'tippy tappy' football, which is equally daft.

Possession based Football this season isn't winning us many games in a more competitive league.
Tippy Tappy is a description by many who do not like possesion football & want direct attacking football.

Daft is not accepting a team has won only 5 of 19 league matches & is currently 6 points above the relegation zone & 11 points from a play off spot.
We need something to change .

I'd like personally for RW to make sure the team are hard to beat, but I also want the mentality of players to change, if opportunity presents to attack an opposition then take it & beat the man , not think I might not get past him so I'll keep possession instead & pass it backwards or no look sideways like Turns did when he gave the ball away.


Again " It isn't about possession, It isn't about tactics
Or selections & Formations .

It's about Attitudes & Desire & belief .
Right now I am starting to question some of these
Key attributes in Mentality of players & possibly Management staff coaches owners .
I'm certainly not asking for RW to be sacked .
I just want him to act & Think like a winning Manager & Not as a Manager who was a Midfield player.
Be a Little more brave take a few more risks when we
need to as well as be a bit more aggressive in approach.

Lincoln & Chesterfield are 2 of the worst performances I have seen since the takeover.

I am not sure it’s that simple to separate it all out though.

Formation and tactics can provide belief, or drain it.

Example, Sunday with Forde up front. Couldn’t hold the ball up or win a tackle. He’s a box player. You could see that after fifteen minutes it wasn’t going to work. Maybe the players could to.

I agree every player should be putting in a shift but not always that easy if you can see something isn’t working. I don’t think it’s a lack of effort for the majority of the players. I think more lack of confidence and belief in what their doing.

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:40 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:59 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:50 pm I don't think the opening post is such a 'daft' question because we play more for show. Don't get me wrong I love watching our play and having more possession of the ball than our opponents. But, like I've said before there's far too much emphasis on tippy tapping our way up to the penalty area and not enough emphasis on killer passes, movement and more bodies in the box. In other words rather than always looking good mix up our play a bit more.

It is a daft question. He also calls our possession based approach 'tippy tappy' football, which is equally daft.

Possession based Football this season isn't winning us many games in a more competitive league.
Tippy Tappy is a description by many who do not like possesion football & want direct attacking football.

Daft is not accepting a team has won only 5 of 19 league matches & is currently 6 points above the relegation zone & 11 points from a play off spot.
We need something to change .

I'd like personally for RW to make sure the team are hard to beat, but I also want the mentality of players to change, if opportunity presents to attack an opposition then take it & beat the man , not think I might not get past him so I'll keep possession instead & pass it backwards or no look sideways like Turns did when he gave the ball away.


Again " It isn't about possession, It isn't about tactics
Or selections & Formations .

It's about Attitudes & Desire & belief .
Right now I am starting to question some of these
Key attributes in Mentality of players & possibly Management staff coaches owners .
I'm certainly not asking for RW to be sacked .
I just want him to act & Think like a winning Manager & Not as a Manager who was a Midfield player.
Be a Little more brave take a few more risks when we
need to as well as be a bit more aggressive in approach.

Lincoln & Chesterfield are 2 of the worst performances I have seen since the takeover.

Got that completely wrong tuffers

DrWindy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:54 am I am not sure it’s that simple to separate it all out though.

Formation and tactics can provide belief, or drain it.

Example, Sunday with Forde up front. Couldn’t hold the ball up or win a tackle. He’s a box player. You could see that after fifteen minutes it wasn’t going to work. Maybe the players could to.

I agree every player should be putting in a shift but not always that easy if you can see something isn’t working. I don’t think it’s a lack of effort for the majority of the players. I think more lack of confidence and belief in what their doing.

Totally agree, so find a formula to win(easy to say I Know), But lets go back to Blackpool a Exeter a Peterbro a Cambridge h Shrews h Reading h Carlisle a please quickly.

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:58 am

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:40 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:59 pm

It is a daft question. He also calls our possession based approach 'tippy tappy' football, which is equally daft.

Possession based Football this season isn't winning us many games in a more competitive league.
Tippy Tappy is a description by many who do not like possesion football & want direct attacking football.

Daft is not accepting a team has won only 5 of 19 league matches & is currently 6 points above the relegation zone & 11 points from a play off spot.
We need something to change .

I'd like personally for RW to make sure the team are hard to beat, but I also want the mentality of players to change, if opportunity presents to attack an opposition then take it & beat the man , not think I might not get past him so I'll keep possession instead & pass it backwards or no look sideways like Turns did when he gave the ball away.


Again " It isn't about possession, It isn't about tactics
Or selections & Formations .

It's about Attitudes & Desire & belief .
Right now I am starting to question some of these
Key attributes in Mentality of players & possibly Management staff coaches owners .
I'm certainly not asking for RW to be sacked .
I just want him to act & Think like a winning Manager & Not as a Manager who was a Midfield player.
Be a Little more brave take a few more risks when we
need to as well as be a bit more aggressive in approach.

Lincoln & Chesterfield are 2 of the worst performances I have seen since the takeover.

Got that completely wrong tuffers

Again If I was who you think admin would have checked my devices & email address .
It's safe to say I am not him
I am However Joe.

More unsubstantiated allegations with no comeback to him . Isn't that part of the boards rules ?

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:50 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:59 pm

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:50 pm I don't think the opening post is such a 'daft' question because we play more for show. Don't get me wrong I love watching our play and having more possession of the ball than our opponents. But, like I've said before there's far too much emphasis on tippy tapping our way up to the penalty area and not enough emphasis on killer passes, movement and more bodies in the box. In other words rather than always looking good mix up our play a bit more.

It is a daft question. He also calls our possession based approach 'tippy tappy' football, which is equally daft.

If you read into it, it's a bit of a tongue in cheek question but at the same time saying that we have to change a bit if we want to win games. And that, i believe.That's how I interpret it, anyway.
As far as 'tippy tappy' goes it's just a modern footballing term to identify a teams style of play. You know this. Nothing detrimental.

Of course it's a detrimental term, used to disparage the modern, possession based approach to the game. Generally used by old school types who don't like players peeing around with the ball at the back.

DrWindy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:54 am I am not sure it’s that simple to separate it all out though.

Formation and tactics can provide belief, or drain it.

Example, Sunday with Forde up front. Couldn’t hold the ball up or win a tackle. He’s a box player. You could see that after fifteen minutes it wasn’t going to work. Maybe the players could to.

I agree every player should be putting in a shift but not always that easy if you can see something isn’t working. I don’t think it’s a lack of effort for the majority of the players. I think more lack of confidence and belief in what their doing.

Of course it's not a lack of effort.

You're right, it's all about the mindset of the players. People underestimate that massively.

DrWindy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:54 am I am not sure it’s that simple to separate it all out though.

Formation and tactics can provide belief, or drain it.

Example, Sunday with Forde up front. Couldn’t hold the ball up or win a tackle. He’s a box player. You could see that after fifteen minutes it wasn’t going to work. Maybe the players could to.

I agree every player should be putting in a shift but not always that easy if you can see something isn’t working. I don’t think it’s a lack of effort for the majority of the players. I think more lack of confidence and belief in what their doing.

Agree, Forde is a box player only. And I think Stanley above is a bit premature in writing him off.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:33 am

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:50 pm

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 3:59 pm

It is a daft question. He also calls our possession based approach 'tippy tappy' football, which is equally daft.

If you read into it, it's a bit of a tongue in cheek question but at the same time saying that we have to change a bit if we want to win games. And that, i believe.That's how I interpret it, anyway.
As far as 'tippy tappy' goes it's just a modern footballing term to identify a teams style of play. You know this. Nothing detrimental.

Of course it's a detrimental term, used to disparage the modern, possession based approach to the game. Generally used by old school types who don't like players peeing around with the ball at the back.

Detrimental or not Detrimental it's Wellens' way of playing and he goes a bit too far with it.

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:43 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:33 am

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 4:50 pm
If you read into it, it's a bit of a tongue in cheek question but at the same time saying that we have to change a bit if we want to win games. And that, i believe.That's how I interpret it, anyway.
As far as 'tippy tappy' goes it's just a modern footballing term to identify a teams style of play. You know this. Nothing detrimental.

Of course it's a detrimental term, used to disparage the modern, possession based approach to the game. Generally used by old school types who don't like players peeing around with the ball at the back.

Detrimental or not Detrimental it's Wellens' way of playing and he goes a bit too far with it.

He doesn't get it Chief CH.

2 types of Tippy Tappy (possesion football) was
played & on show at the Etihad on Sunday .
Man city's world beating slickness &
The pure thrust of Ange Postecoglus
Tottenham who were undeniably under pressure from the Favourites . Yet managed to muster a belief
In what the goal is . We'll defend & keep ball when we have to , but when opportunity presents me explode all
guns blazing . Winning mentality football .

Yes, those famous winners: Tottenham.

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:50 am

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:43 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:33 am

Of course it's a detrimental term, used to disparage the modern, possession based approach to the game. Generally used by old school types who don't like players peeing around with the ball at the back.

Detrimental or not Detrimental it's Wellens' way of playing and he goes a bit too far with it.

He doesn't get it Chief CH.

2 types of Tippy Tappy (possesion football) was
played & on show at the Etihad on Sunday .
Man city's world beating slickness &
The pure thrust of Ange Postecoglus
Tottenham who were undeniably under pressure from the Favourites . Yet managed to muster a belief
In what the goal is . We'll defend & keep ball when we have to , but when opportunity presents me explode all
guns blazing . Winning mentality football .

Are you seriously saying Riche Wellens goes a bit too far with the 'tippy-tappy' possession based football, and instead we should try and be a bit more like Ange P's Spurs???

Have you seriously just said that?

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:50 am

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:43 am

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:33 am

Of course it's a detrimental term, used to disparage the modern, possession based approach to the game. Generally used by old school types who don't like players peeing around with the ball at the back.

Detrimental or not Detrimental it's Wellens' way of playing and he goes a bit too far with it.

He doesn't get it Chief CH.

2 types of Tippy Tappy (possesion football) was
played & on show at the Etihad on Sunday .
Man city's world beating slickness &
The pure thrust of Ange Postecoglus
Tottenham who were undeniably under pressure from the Favourites . Yet managed to muster a belief
In what the goal is . We'll defend & keep ball when we have to , but when opportunity presents me explode all
guns blazing . Winning mentality football .

Ah, it's a wind up. There you go.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:12 am

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:50 am

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:43 am

Detrimental or not Detrimental it's Wellens' way of playing and he goes a bit too far with it.

He doesn't get it Chief CH.

2 types of Tippy Tappy (possesion football) was
played & on show at the Etihad on Sunday .
Man city's world beating slickness &
The pure thrust of Ange Postecoglus
Tottenham who were undeniably under pressure from the Favourites . Yet managed to muster a belief
In what the goal is . We'll defend & keep ball when we have to , but when opportunity presents me explode all
guns blazing . Winning mentality football .

Are you seriously saying Riche Wellens goes a bit too far with the 'tippy-tappy' possession based football, and instead we should try and be a bit more like Ange P's Spurs???

Have you seriously just said that?

Not even close to what I have said.

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:17 am

Joe315 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:50 am

Chief crazy horse wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:43 am

Detrimental or not Detrimental it's Wellens' way of playing and he goes a bit too far with it.

He doesn't get it Chief CH.

2 types of Tippy Tappy (possesion football) was
played & on show at the Etihad on Sunday .
Man city's world beating slickness &
The pure thrust of Ange Postecoglus
Tottenham who were undeniably under pressure from the Favourites . Yet managed to muster a belief
In what the goal is . We'll defend & keep ball when we have to , but when opportunity presents me explode all
guns blazing . Winning mentality football .

Ah, it's a wind up. There you go.

No wind up.
Teams play Possesion football, some play It well some don't. We played it well last season. This season we aren't. It's pretty simple really. Last season it worked as we had the best squad in the league. This season it isn't as we don't.

So find another style of possesion based that allows us to benefit the 11 on the pitch, be it allow them to make decisions instead of micro managing etc.

This is tuffers, isn't it? I'm f*cking arguing on the internet with that clown tuffers again, aren't I?

Are we knocking Spurs, who are 5th without Kane (and were recently higher before injuries) ?

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:08 am This is tuffers, isn't it? I'm f*cking arguing on the internet with that clown tuffers again, aren't I?

Of course it is, he’s also Soloman and probably one or two others, tuffers just doesn’t disappear over night not someone like him or her maybe who knows? this is there thrill in life they enjoy it, easy to set up an email address, my guess he has a few. Probably argues with himself to start the ball rolling. Tuffers got band around August and look when Joe appeared. Cleaver setting up several accounts knowing that will happen at some point.wonder if all the genuine people were to foe the undesirables on here you would soon know who he or they were.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:25 am Are we knocking Spurs, who are 5th without Kane (and were recently higher before injuries) ?

Not at all. They're an absolute joy to watch (as a neutral) with their kamikazee possession based football and ridiculously high defensive line.

But the suggestion that Richie's 'tippy tappy' game is 'a bit too much' and we should try and play more like them is either a wind up, or moronic. I'm trying to decipher which.

Why?

Passing it sideways indefintely is moronic.

Just 7 months after winning our first league title in half a century, we are just one step away from blokes in the crowd yelling "noooo!" "forward!" again. It's like a pair of comfortable knackered old slippers.