Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:38 pm Worst England manager we’ve had since Sven-Göran Eriksson. How we have never won a competition with this squad of players is beyond me. Don’t get me started about this plank please

Who would be your choice to become the next England manager ?

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:03 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:38 pm Worst England manager we’ve had since Sven-Göran Eriksson. How we have never won a competition with this squad of players is beyond me. Don’t get me started about this plank please

Who would be your choice to become the next England manager ?

It’s not for me to say red but I will anyway don’t suppose you can look further than Pep Guardiola, but I don’t think he will take the job and if you’re talking about an English manager then Eddie Howe has to come into the equation at this present time but again I don’t think he would take it either.

Either of them would be mad to leave those clubs for the England job

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:20 pm Either of them would be mad to leave those clubs for the England job

Yes your not wrong unfortunately

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:48 pm Graeme Souness and Stuart Pearce have won...what?

Your posts are, generally. among the more enlightened on here so I'm assuming this was tongue in cheek as you must surely know Souness won : (as manager and player)
8 league titles
8 league cups
and 3 European cups amongst others

EH16 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:34 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:48 pm Graeme Souness and Stuart Pearce have won...what?

Your posts are, generally. among the more enlightened on here so I'm assuming this was tongue in cheek as you must surely know Souness won : (as manager and player)
8 league titles
8 league cups
and 3 European cups amongst others

Think I clarified above that the Scottish ones don't count.

As a manager, I'll give him the League Cup with Blackburn and that's it really. Only winning the FA Cup with Galatasaray at that time was a failure.

What did I tell you, Maguire back at centre back,two holding midfielders, this idiot is beyond help

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:59 pm

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:24 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:38 pm Worst England manager we’ve had since Sven-Göran Eriksson. How we have never won a competition with this squad of players is beyond me. Don’t get me started about this plank please

But actually statistically, the best manager England have ever had (Southgate) bar Sir Alf Ramsay, so it would be interesting to see how you've arrived at your appraisal of "worst".

He's not perfect - but what is clear is the players love playing for him - dropouts for friendlies etc are unheard of these days when at one point the so-called stars just turned up when they fancied it.
His teams play fair, and he's also given England a forward thinking image of decency around issues such as racism. Completely out of step to some of the Ingerland primates that attach themselves to the national team.

I Wonder what it is that bothers you so much about him.

Who would you rather see in charge, that would be guaranteed to take us to 1 quarter-final, 1 semi-final, and 1 final in 3 attempts?
I'd be intrigued to know.

I will answer your question however it is only my opinion obviously. Southgate is a good man manager and is very good addressing the media. His tactical awareness is nil in my book, for the past 5 years or so we have been blessed with class players such as Kane,Foden,Bellingham,Grealish,Saka and Rice to name but a few. We should have won at the very least one if not two trophies by now.We haven’t. His main concern is not loosing and that’s his priority each and every game. I’ve watched England international teams since we won the World Cup and this is by far the best squad of players we have had even eclipsing the golden Beckham generation and that team was buggered by Ericsson too. You quoted semi finals and even a final but have we actually won anything. No. Never in my life have I seen so ineptitude shown by a manager as he showed in in the euro final. His constant belief in players that are way past there best is unbelievable. He is so far up the FA’s back side it’s a joke and only gets the job because nobody else wants it. Now let me ask you a question 1) if Pep Guardiola had the squad, do you think he would win something and do you think a top six premiership club would employ Southgate

Thanks. I appreciate such a cohesive answer, and I mean that sincerely fella.
I think that you (and many others) over-rate our players. Sure, Foden/Grealish look great with great players around them (at City), but I think we as a nation tend to over-rate our players.
Have Bayern/Real/Barca/PSG come in for Rice/Saka/Grealish/Foden? Not to my knowledge, and that says a lot about how they are viewed. Don't get me wrong, they're all good players, but whether they're great players remains to be seen.

For sure- Southgate made mistakes in the Euro final (and was big enough to hold up his hands for that), but he still got us there. No other manager since 1966 has done that. We're not the world beaters you assume us to be. We didn't even qualify for the world cup for 12 years a while back (70-82).

To answer your questions (and you haven't answered mine, which was who do you think would do better- and Guardiola is not available so that isn't an answer). So, again, who do you think, that is realistic, would do better?

1) I'm not convinced Pep would win something with England, no. I think he's a manager that needs the day to day relationship with players, which is something he always pursued.

2) It seems unlikely that a Top 6 EPL club would employ Southgate- they prefer "name" managers (and look where that's got some of 'em) However that his little bearing on his current role, as International football is not really the same thing. Ergo, Aston Villa are in the Top 6 in the EPL. If the FA gave Unai Emery the England job, I imagine many would scream about that, so you're comparing apples with oranges to a degree.

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:32 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:20 pm Either of them would be mad to leave those clubs for the England job

Yes your not wrong unfortunately

So you're clear that you want Southgate gone, but can't even come up with one viable replacement for him?
That is rather empty logic and that's an understatement.

Time for Henderson to save the day that if Phillips doesn’t get sent off in the mean time

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:42 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:32 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:20 pm Either of them would be mad to leave those clubs for the England job

Yes your not wrong unfortunately

So you're clear that you want Southgate gone, but can't even come up with one viable replacement for him?
That is rather empty logic and that's an understatement.

Eddie Howe, or the Arsenal managerWould suit, there you go credible enough for you

Don’t get me stated on Southgate…

The F A have a yes man who will always
get England to finals and never achieve
anything when we get there ..

No better chance than when playing
Croatia in a World Cup Semi final,
an early goal and we should/could have
kicked on to win the game instead we
sit back and get punished..
Ok we wouldn’t have beaten France
in the final but at least 2 generation
who have been born since 66 could
have at least said “ I’ve seen England in a
World Cup Final”..
From playing players who are not getting
match time at there clubs to playing
negative boring football ..
We’ll always be an “also run” on the
international stage until we can hire a
winner in the hot seat ..

Would be fascinating to hear how Southgate haters on here rank the other England managers we've had since Sir Alf, to see where Southgate stands.

FFS Southgate!

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:45 pm

LittleMate wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:23 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:59 pm

I will answer your question however it is only my opinion obviously. Southgate is a good man manager and is very good addressing the media. His tactical awareness is nil in my book, for the past 5 years or so we have been blessed with class players such as Kane,Foden,Bellingham,Grealish,Saka and Rice to name but a few. We should have won at the very least one if not two trophies by now.We haven’t. His main concern is not loosing and that’s his priority each and every game. I’ve watched England international teams since we won the World Cup and this is by far the best squad of players we have had even eclipsing the golden Beckham generation and that team was buggered by Ericsson too. You quoted semi finals and even a final but have we actually won anything. No. Never in my life have I seen so ineptitude shown by a manager as he showed in in the euro final. His constant belief in players that are way past there best is unbelievable. He is so far up the FA’s back side it’s a joke and only gets the job because nobody else wants it. Now let me ask you a question 1) if Pep Guardiola had the squad, do you think he would win something and do you think a top six premiership club would employ Southgate

You lost me when you stated the players we have been blessed with for the past 5 years or so.

Only Kane has been on that list for 5 years. Even 3 years ago, only Kane would be universally accepted as deserving a start and only Foden would have been in with a realistic shout. Saka and Grealish were fitful at best and Bellingham was only 17 and been at Dortmund for only a few weeks.

Most people, Like Monkey here, fail to understand why Southgate sets up England like he does. He's not negative or boring, he's pragmatic. He's stated that time and time again that he sets up to win tournament football games, not to be easy on the eye.

This rubbish about blessed with players. We haven't been blessed with any genuinely world class centre backs for about 20 years. Southgate realises its our weak spot and therefore plays accordingly, with 2 holding midfielders, or 3 CB's, or both. Because if we didnt we'd ship 3-4 goals every game.

The Southgate haters dont understand football or just have short memories on how poorly we've played at tournaments since 96.

Ape Girl hasn't got a clue and Rich Tea has it right ,blessed with world class players ,

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:01 pm What did I tell you, Maguire back at centre back,two holding midfielders, this idiot is beyond help

Management masterclass tonight, showing you right up. Henderson on to see us over the line.

Bellingham is so silky. El miz wannabe

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:26 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:01 pm What did I tell you, Maguire back at centre back,two holding midfielders, this idiot is beyond help

Management masterclass tonight, showing you right up. Henderson on to see us over the line.

I’d expect Paul Hague could keep this
Italian front line quiet ..
On the basis of just how poor this
Italian side are ..

Hedmans Header wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:29 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:26 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:01 pm What did I tell you, Maguire back at centre back,two holding midfielders, this idiot is beyond help

Management masterclass tonight, showing you right up. Henderson on to see us over the line.

I’d expect Paul Hague could keep this
Italian front line quiet ..
On the basis of just how poor this
Italian side are ..

Just pointless discussing his record when people are just going to dismiss a comprehensive win over the European Champions despite missing a few first XI players. The idiots have decided they don't like him and even what they see with their own eyes won't change their minds.

Well, there's a confident dispatching of a top-10 ranked nation, with another 3 goals scored, to seal our qualification. Well done, clueless Gareth!

A mark of Southgate is how much the players are still bought into him. He’s been there a while and players are still pressing quickly and tracking back in a game that’s won in the 89th minute.
Do think we have a chance at the Euros if we can somehow bring another CB through. Ghehi looked good

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:26 pm

Monkey Boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:01 pm What did I tell you, Maguire back at centre back,two holding midfielders, this idiot is beyond help

Management masterclass tonight, showing you right up. Henderson on to see us over the line.

You do talk rubbish, he’s so predictable a better manager will find him out, if I can predict his formation and substitution is anybody can,so many sideways and back passes, Beccles would fit in comfortably

Wally Banter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:41 pm Well, there's a confident dispatching of a top-10 ranked nation, with another 3 goals scored, to seal our qualification. Well done, clueless Gareth!

Spot on clueless

Well, you've left yourself plenty of room to be 'right' - by the sounds of it, anything short of winning the next tournament will prove you 'right'.

Monkey boy won’t be happy until we play 442. He’s old school and properly out of touch