Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:22 am**

Nobody seems to mention the environmental damage of keep producing new cars and getting rid of the older working cars. We are just moving from one source of pollution to another.

I believe that EVs need to travel 70,000 miles before they are more green than an ICE.

The whole thing should be about the environment as a whole, not just ICEs.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:47 am**

It is definitely not about reducing London's population, all of the central government/gla/local authority planning is based on the idea the city will grow by another quarter by end of next decade.

There is a definite disconnect between the powers available to the gla and what needs to be done to reduce private vehicle dependence. Before central government started making heavy cuts to tfl and then the pandemic, the idea was we were going to get crossrail 2, a bakerloo line extension, DLR expansion, a load of new overground routes across the city. These were planned specifically to improve connectivity to outer boroughs. But there's too much political capital for the Tories now in attacking London as a money sink nest of lefty elites to allow for that investment.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:39 pm**

I had my number plates stolen, no doubt the cloned car will be running up hundreds of £s in PCNs

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:01 pm**

Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:22 am Nobody seems to mention the environmental damage of keep producing new cars and getting rid of the older working cars. We are just moving from one source of pollution to another.

I believe that EVs need to travel 70,000 miles before they are more green than an ICE.

The whole thing should be about the environment as a whole, not just ICEs.

They're trying to clean up londons air by reducing specific pollutants arent they?
I'm all for long lasting vehicles, but we cant stop producing new and better ones.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:03 am**

Full marks to Sadiq Khan for upholding his policy for the purpose of cleaner air in London even though Starmer suddendly doesn't seem to support it (and tried to undermine Khan) because 400 or so people in Uxbridge don't like it.

And let's remember: this also was Johnson's mission when he he was the Mayor for London.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:42 am**

EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:22 am
greyhound wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:54 pm most boarders on are for it
my point being that's ok but what about
people who cant afford to buy a different car
if you live inside the zone £12. 50 a day every day
every month wont be worth working.
its not just a few people its probably thousands.
Agree. Heard a nurse interviewed who works shifts including night shifts at a hospital, she needs a car to get to work and back, she can’t afford to get another car at the moment, she and her family are really struggling financially with the cost of living crisis. I get the need to reduce pollution, not arguing with that, but the hit is unfairly falling on those who can least afford it.

Why does she need a car to get to work if she lives in London. We have 24 hour public transport. Unless she is carrying tons of equipment each day which seems unlikely I don’t see why any single person in London needs a car.
I’m in my 40s and I’ve never driven in London. Never needed to. Like I say unless you have loads of kit to move about it seems like a rare occurrence that only a car will do. We have to adapt and stop being selfish because the world is in trouble.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:03 am**

In any form of change there will always be some who will be impacted negatively. How it affects the many, whilst helping the few in need must be the main priority.

Exploting the few to stop change is what we are seeing here. It's being initialled by the usual crew, Piers Corbyn and his lot, The Tories etc

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:39 am**

leebmx wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:42 am
EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:22 am
greyhound wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:54 pm most boarders on are for it
my point being that's ok but what about
people who cant afford to buy a different car
if you live inside the zone £12. 50 a day every day
every month wont be worth working.
its not just a few people its probably thousands.
Agree. Heard a nurse interviewed who works shifts including night shifts at a hospital, she needs a car to get to work and back, she can’t afford to get another car at the moment, she and her family are really struggling financially with the cost of living crisis. I get the need to reduce pollution, not arguing with that, but the hit is unfairly falling on those who can least afford it.
Why does she need a car to get to work if she lives in London. We have 24 hour public transport. Unless she is carrying tons of equipment each day which seems unlikely I don’t see why any single person in London needs a car.
I’m in my 40s and I’ve never driven in London. Never needed to. Like I say unless you have loads of kit to move about it seems like a rare occurrence that only a car will do. We have to adapt and stop being selfish because the world is in trouble.

Maybe on night shift she does not fancy public transport, which I could understand

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:20 am**

Story of O wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:39 am
leebmx wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:42 am
EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:22 am

Agree. Heard a nurse interviewed who works shifts including night shifts at a hospital, she needs a car to get to work and back, she can’t afford to get another car at the moment, she and her family are really struggling financially with the cost of living crisis. I get the need to reduce pollution, not arguing with that, but the hit is unfairly falling on those who can least afford it.
Why does she need a car to get to work if she lives in London. We have 24 hour public transport. Unless she is carrying tons of equipment each day which seems unlikely I don’t see why any single person in London needs a car.
I’m in my 40s and I’ve never driven in London. Never needed to. Like I say unless you have loads of kit to move about it seems like a rare occurrence that only a car will do. We have to adapt and stop being selfish because the world is in trouble.
Maybe on night shift she does not fancy public transport, which I could understand

That’s fair. Always exceptions.
In general the point stands.
People forget what London was like in the 80s and 90s. St Paul’s and Westminster turned black because of fumes. They literally had to scrape that sh*t off. And you can bet if it’s there it’s in our lungs. Improvements have been made but there’s still some way to go.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:35 am**

For the first 6 years of my working life, I worked in analytical chemistry. When I swapped to BT, I worked near the Bank & Upper Thames St. I know very little about mechanics etc. So I was quite surprised at getting whiffs of Nitrogen Dioxide. I thought it was very strange. This is an extremely obnoxious & toxic gas & can be used for making Nitric Acid. Later on I discovered NO2 is a product of diesel engines. You really don't want to be breathing in that stuff.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:31 am**

I wonder how many away fans will get caught by this charge. For sure some won't even know about it and could kop the penalty charge. Maybe some will not bother going to their team's games in London as they can't afford the extra cost of the ULEZ charge.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:37 am**

A year in and everyone will be used to it and the quality of air for residents will have improved.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:47 am**

EliotNes wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:31 am I wonder how many away fans will get caught by this charge. For sure some won't even know about it and could kop the penalty charge. Maybe some will not bother going to their team's games in London as they can't afford the extra cost of the ULEZ charge.

I doubt an extra tenner is going to put people off driving to London from Carlisle tbf.

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:53 am**

EliotNes wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:31 am I wonder how many away fans will get caught by this charge. For sure some won't even know about it and could kop the penalty charge. Maybe some will not bother going to their team's games in London as they can't afford the extra cost of the ULEZ charge.

And Home fans (aka me!)?

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:57 am**

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:03 am .....

Exploting the few to stop change is what we are seeing here. ....

We see that happening in respect of all changes

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:01 am**

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:57 am
The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:03 am .....

Exploting the few to stop change is what we are seeing here. ....
We see that happening in respect of all changes

What on earth are you talking about?

Posted: **Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:06 am**

EliotNes wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:31 am I wonder how many away fans will get caught by this charge. For sure some won't even know about it and could kop the penalty charge. Maybe some will not bother going to their team's games in London as they can't afford the extra cost of the ULEZ charge.

Surely overwhelming number of away fans are coming by either coach or public transport. Granted the cost of rail fares is extortionate but I can't think of any fans coming to an orient game who wouldn't be better served speed and convenience wise by coming via the tube, save for those that can't cause of mobility issues. We're less than 20 minutes away from Liverpool Street and crossrail.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:20 pm**

Out of sheer curiosity, I checked back to this thread and have been monitoring the air pollutions day by day for the last fortnight for the last 2 weeks for these 3 areas - 1 urban, 2 very rural, and can conclude the averages as:

Uxbridge = 2 (low)
Lizard, Cornwall (the middle of nowhere) = 2 (low)
Orkney Islands = 2.5 (low)

So, whatever His Majesty Khan has up his sleeve, this Isn't about air pollution as we can see. Unless there are plans afoot for a ULEZ on The Lizard which I'm not party to.
I wonder what this is really about. Can anyone explain?

(as before, when it went unanswered) Genuine question.

He really does seem to be taking the people of London for complete and utter Tobys. At least, that's how it looks from here. Happy as always to be corrected, or even abused, which is more likely I imagine. Please share with me what I am missing here.

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:59 pm**

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:20 pm Out of sheer curiosity, I checked back to this thread and have been monitoring the air pollutions day by day for the last fortnight for the last 2 weeks for these 3 areas - 1 urban, 2 very rural, and can conclude the averages as:

Uxbridge = 2 (low)
Lizard, Cornwall (the middle of nowhere) = 2 (low)
Orkney Islands = 2.5 (low)

So, whatever His Majesty Khan has up his sleeve, this Isn't about air pollution as we can see. Unless there are plans afoot for a ULEZ on The Lizard which I'm not party to.
I wonder what this is really about. Can anyone explain?

(as before, when it went unanswered) Genuine question.

He really does seem to be taking the people of London for complete and utter Tobys. At least, that's how it looks from here. Happy as always to be corrected, or even abused, which is more likely I imagine. Please share with me what I am missing here.

Is the answer to the thing you are missing an utter inability to know what you are talking about?

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:10 pm**

Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:20 pm Out of sheer curiosity, I checked back to this thread and have been monitoring the air pollutions day by day for the last fortnight for the last 2 weeks for these 3 areas - 1 urban, 2 very rural, and can conclude the averages as:

Uxbridge = 2 (low)
Lizard, Cornwall (the middle of nowhere) = 2 (low)
Orkney Islands = 2.5 (low)

So, whatever His Majesty Khan has up his sleeve, this Isn't about air pollution as we can see. Unless there are plans afoot for a ULEZ on The Lizard which I'm not party to.
I wonder what this is really about. Can anyone explain?

(as before, when it went unanswered) Genuine question.

He really does seem to be taking the people of London for complete and utter Tobys. At least, that's how it looks from here. Happy as always to be corrected, or even abused, which is more likely I imagine. Please share with me what I am missing here.

Where are you getting your pollution data from?

Posted: **Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:15 pm**

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:37 am A year in and everyone will be used to it and the quality of air for residents will have improved.

Or not as even TfL have modeled that it will make negligible difference. All about the £££

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:30 am**

It's baffling why Londoners would wish to continue having licence (and giving licence to others) to pollute the air we all have to breathe when pollution is avoidable.
Maybe those who protest believe that dirty air will only impact on others and therefore be of no concern to themselves, their children and grandchildren???
The famous London smog of a few decades ago didn't just disappear as if by magic. Science and political will made it possible (as well as the simple folks appreciating that cleaner air was actually a good thing).

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:53 am**

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:10 pm
Scuba Diver wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 8:20 pm Out of sheer curiosity, I checked back to this thread and have been monitoring the air pollutions day by day for the last fortnight for the last 2 weeks for these 3 areas - 1 urban, 2 very rural, and can conclude the averages as:

Uxbridge = 2 (low)
Lizard, Cornwall (the middle of nowhere) = 2 (low)
Orkney Islands = 2.5 (low)

So, whatever His Majesty Khan has up his sleeve, this Isn't about air pollution as we can see. Unless there are plans afoot for a ULEZ on The Lizard which I'm not party to.
I wonder what this is really about. Can anyone explain?

(as before, when it went unanswered) Genuine question.

He really does seem to be taking the people of London for complete and utter Tobys. At least, that's how it looks from here. Happy as always to be corrected, or even abused, which is more likely I imagine. Please share with me what I am missing here.
Where are you getting your pollution data from?

Probably Neil Oliver.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:04 am**

Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:37 am A year in and everyone will be used to it and the quality of air for residents will have improved.

Correct and Uxbridge will turn Labour; protest over. The Tories using this by-election win to change their Green ideology for future votes, is so thick, it’s untrue. The only thing it plays to are the climate change deniers and their base.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:37 am**

The Mindsweep wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:30 am Only affects 10% of cars and that figure will go down in time as older cars are scrapped.

Like all costs, work out if its cheaper to change your car if it affects you, plenty of cheap ones avaliable. Failing that, save up your pennies to buy a spot on Elon"s escape module from a burning planet Earth.

Considering the amount of complaints I'm hearing on the radio I don't believe its only 10% of vehicles.

Independent Leyton Orient Forum

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