Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:40 pm**

Plasmati scored the same amount of goals as alabi, 2 divisions higher, in less games, for reference.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:42 pm**

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:28 pm
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:24 pm
OyinbO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:21 pm He's on a decent wedge here - offers did come in for him, but none were close to what he's on here. So he wouldn't leave - and that's fair enough. Him being taken off the list is just a recognition of a reality. Give him another few months and pay him off at the New Year if he's still cack.

But it does mean Dalby is less likely to come back.
Amazing there's such good will to a bloke who is paid a decent wage, who got brought in to partner Bonne, has scored 2 goals for us and is now refusing to leave meaning we cant bring someone else in.

Imagine that it was Plasmati or Henderson doing the same.
Yeah but we don't like the way you are picking on something about him he is powerless to change. Bullying that's what it amounts to.

Bit of a jump and rather insulting to call me a bully.

I'm talking about football, entirely. As mentioned in my first post on this thread, he seems like a great person. But I dont really care who's nice and who isn't if they aren't very good at their job.

I wish i was a better footballer, but i'm not. Doesn't mean i deserve a shot at league football.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:45 pm**

Footage of him in training:

On another note I can't say I'm surprised. It might even be no problem if we recruit on the assumption he won't be good enough. That means 5 strikers, and preferably one with good pace.

The horrible tackle that got him sent off last season I think took the edge off his game. For a man of his size I'd want to see him being angry, getting in defenders faces, intimidating them, making it physical. That's what some players do to compensate for a lack of skills. Instead he seemed easy pickings for defenders.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm**

Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:57 am
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:42 am The logic doesn't add up. If a player wasnt good enough in level 5, why should he suddenly be improved in level 4?

Spot on it's not rocket science!!!
Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.

Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:48 pm**

Probably couldn't afford to lose the money the club has gotten for his boot sponsorship.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm
Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:57 am

Spot on it's not rocket science!!!
Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.
Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.

Couldn't agree more.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:54 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:10 am Looks like the club is really going for the cheapest route this summer, Alabi being brought back in probably at the expense of the new quality signing we need to strengthen the squad.

Very weak forward line for the new season. An unproven strike pairing, a 35 y/o with bad injury record and a striker with 2 goals in a much weaker league.

It's a concern. We still need another striker.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:59 pm**

PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm
Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm

Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.
Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.
Couldn't agree more.

Agreed and with no experienced first team coach ( manager) I think we could really struggle this season .

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:01 pm**

Please see below:

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:04 pm**

[
He is a bundle of tricks; not easy to play against. Perhaps both he and Gorman will come good this season. We shall see soon enough...
[/quote]

"Bundle of Tricks" wtf.......he just runs, thats all he does. Can you explain what these many tricks he has, are please
[/quote]

Most happy to. He made a few last-gasp cameo appearances last season and had the crowd, even those in the West Stand, on their feet.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 pm**

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:59 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm
gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm

Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.
Couldn't agree more.
Agreed and with no experienced first team coach ( manager) I think we could really struggle this season .

There is certainly an air of the club wanting to re-coup some of the £2 million loss thats been posted. Or at best, ensuring there is no repeat.

Is what it is though and if it means it's this opposed to things spiraling out of control then so be it.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:17 pm**

Fellowo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 pm
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:59 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Couldn't agree more.
Agreed and with no experienced first team coach ( manager) I think we could really struggle this season .
There is certainly an air of the club wanting to re-coup some of the £2 million loss thats been posted. Or at best, ensuring there is no repeat.

Is what it is though and if it means it's this opposed to things spiraling out of control then so be it.

Well let's hope it doesn't spiral out of control with us going back down to the National League.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:17 pm**

Fellowo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 pm
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:59 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Couldn't agree more.
Agreed and with no experienced first team coach ( manager) I think we could really struggle this season .
There is certainly an air of the club wanting to re-coup some of the £2 million loss thats been posted. Or at best, ensuring there is no repeat.

Is what it is though and if it means it's this opposed to things spiraling out of control then so be it.

What a load of rubbish. We have paid fees for two incoming signings who are probably on good wages, as well as Wright who will be on a good wage. We've signed Widdowson and Clay to new contracts, among others, likely on improved terms. We sold two players it was impossible to keep, and kept one it was impossible to sell and now all of a sudden we're penny pinching?

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:17 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:40 pm Plasmati scored the same amount of goals as alabi, 2 divisions higher, in less games, for reference.

I agree that it's a bit weird some of our fans seem so excited by this news.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:34 pm**

63 posts of sheer joy to read

Keep it up please

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:35 pm**

Plasmati was a bit of a poser; although he is a bit like a speedboat out of control, Alabi genuinely tries...

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:38 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm
Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:57 am

Spot on it's not rocket science!!!
Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.
Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.

Something did change over the summer. You might have heard about it.

Where is the evidence of youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings?

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:41 pm**

gshaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm
Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm
PoundhillO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:57 am

Spot on it's not rocket science!!!
Cheap option.
It’s the Orient way.
I think people need to get real, the owners are no different to all the others we have had prior FB.
They will continue to keep the club ticking over but don’t expect any real ambition.
The wage bill will probably be top half, no different to what it was under Barry.
Something feels like it's changed over summer. The ambition and winning attitude appears to have evaporated and it's all money being diverted off elsewhere. Along with youth players being made out to be equivalent to signings it feels very Hearn-esque again.

We have paid money for two strikers. That seems like good ambition to me.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:44 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:38 am I understand that people want him to do well. I want him to do well. Not only is he an Orient player, but he sounds like an excellent person.

What I really struggle to understand is why people think he will come good? I see it on here (this thread, already has a few comments saying this) and on Twitter. I don't know if it's because peoples desperation for him to do well overrides their logic.

See, if you look at Gorman, I can understand people saying he will come good. Personally I think he'll have a better season this year than last. He's had over 60 games in League Two across a few seasons, didnt have any pre-season last year, I saw small bursts where I saw something more than what we saw in most of his appearances, etc.. there are reasons to believe he might do better.

Alabi on the other hand...he came in as a 1st choice strike partner for Bonne where he ran around a lot but affected none of the games he started initially. He then provided a bit of an impact, scoring a few goals (and his last goals of the season) in the autumn. After that pretty much every appearance he made he looked like a player that should be playing at least a division below. Outside of Bonne we had no proven goalscorers last year so he had more than ample opportunity, he was in a squad where by all accounts the spirit was outstanding, he had a great manager and a great strike partner.

As it stands today he doesn't have that great manager any more, he doesn't have Bonne next to him, he is playing in a division higher than last season, in a league he has a total of 4 appearances in (and 0 goals), he score 2 (TWO!) goals last season.

I might be TOTALLY wrong and out of the blue he bags 10-15 goals but looking at the facts, there is absolutely nothing to suggest this will happen. Unfortunately, I'd go as far as saying, he is going to be embarrassed playing at League Two level.

I agree with all of this. Also, think of where he is on his development curve - his skillset won't be improving and at his age it would be astounding if he achieved anything well out of line with his career performance to date all while playing at a higher level. You don't need analytics to see that. I can only assume he is staying until he has had the chance to prove he is not an asset to the squad in League Two and we will then replace him. Or until NL teams suffer injuries and need a replacement.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:46 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:42 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:28 pm
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Amazing there's such good will to a bloke who is paid a decent wage, who got brought in to partner Bonne, has scored 2 goals for us and is now refusing to leave meaning we cant bring someone else in.

Imagine that it was Plasmati or Henderson doing the same.
Yeah but we don't like the way you are picking on something about him he is powerless to change. Bullying that's what it amounts to.
Bit of a jump and rather insulting to call me a bully.

I'm talking about football, entirely. As mentioned in my first post on this thread, he seems like a great person. But I dont really care who's nice and who isn't if they aren't very good at their job.

I wish i was a better footballer, but i'm not. Doesn't mean i deserve a shot at league football.

Bullying by Message Board. It's a thing they have these days.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:48 pm**

He might deliver a better performance if we actually played to his strengths. Much that i saw last season, we didn't. By the time he came on the pitch Bonne (almost never subbed) was playing as the main striker.

Can't think this would have happened under Justin though, Alabi would have gone the way of Mooney or Elokobi (by all account equally nice chaps) and just told not to come in.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:53 pm**

eagwgw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:48 pm He might deliver a better performance if we actually played to his strengths. Much that i saw last season, we didn't. By the time he came on the pitch Bonne (almost never subbed) was playing as the main striker.

Can't think this would have happened under Justin though, Alabi would have gone the way of Mooney or Elokobi and just told not to come in.

We can play to his strengths but then can we utilise them effectively in conjunction with his weaknesses?

For example, he can run past a high defensive line onto a through ball but then what about his decision making and his first/second/third touch when he's then on the ball? Or are we going to rely on him to just draw fouls instead that allow us to move play up the pitch and hope we can make something of resultant set piece into the box? All while hoping that clear-cut chances in the area fall to another player and not him.

Agreed that he would have been sent to Boco Island under Edinburgh...I still think he ultimately ends up there though.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:58 pm**

I feel sorry for him because he works hard and makes good runs but is never picked out where he could potentially do any damage. He’s not someone to be running into channels to hold up the ball like Bonne did. How many clear cut chances did he get last season?i don’t remember many. Hopefully they can utilise his strengths, much like Gorman. Orient could be very one dimensional last year.

There’s a player in there, hopefully we’ll see him come good. I very much doubt it though.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:01 pm**

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:20 pm
BIGRON wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:19 pm
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:42 am The logic doesn't add up. If a player wasnt good enough in level 5, why should he suddenly be improved in level 4?
Seeing your replies on this subject its obvious youve already wrote James off , give the guy a chance , i for one think hes going to be a revelation this season .
Ron - Understand your position, but can you explain your logic and what makes you think he will be a 'revelation'? Genuinely interested.

I thought i saw signs of real ability from James last season , when he came on he always seemed to get under the oppositions skin , now please excuse me as i have my appointment with my Optition for an eye test

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:04 pm**

Not surprised by this to be honest. I have heard we actually had lots of bids for him that were accepted but he turned them all day. That's his choice seeing as he is under contract so I have no problem with that.
I was never his biggest fan as some of you on here will know but as 4th choice striker I will back him. If we can have 7 on the bench then we'll have both strikers on there to come on if need be. Harrold for height and Alabi for (suppsosed) strength and pace.

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