Independent Leyton Orient Forum

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:57 pm Guilty m’lud.

OTF Photography Ltd wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:08 pm Well done for deciding when a woman can or can’t have a mental crisis.
Etc, etc…

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:43 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-65978834

She's guilty as hell, I havent read anything to suggest otherwise.

OTF Photography Ltd wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:39 pm Interesting is a strange word. I read one article about a tiny part of it and my stomach churned. It’s abhorrent.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:43 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-65978834

She's guilty as hell, I havent read anything to suggest otherwise.

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:43 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-65978834

She's guilty as hell, I havent read anything to suggest otherwise.

Mick McQuaid wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:20 pm A case like this is incredibly hard to prove, but it doesn't mean the burden of proof changes.

LSN's links are all from the prosecution opening statements which promised a lot but from what I have seen aren't standing up well under examination.

In each case it seems they are having to admit failings in care which could have affected the outcome and complications with the babies health which may be relevant. The doctor called as a witness for the prosecution would go no further than an opinion that air being administered was the most plausible explanation. By definition then there are other plausible explanations, so no where near the proof that is needed.

I disnt realise until I started reading a little more into it that this case was triggered by an investigation into increased mortality on the ward, not through any concerns raised about the nurses conduct at the time.

Tye star witness who now claims to have walked in as she was trying to murder a baby was so concerned at the time he did absolutely nothing about it, not even asking for the alarm that should have been sounding to be looked at. The other people being called as witnesses are a grieving parent and someone who saw her standing in the doorway of a darkened room.

I'd still say on the balance of probability she did it, but the prosecution don't seem close to beyond reasonable doubt. Also relevant to my view is the number of times plod have fitted someone up in cases like this by only being interested in the evidence that strengthens their case and then saying there's an overwhelming amount of it. This is the perfect case for a miscarriage of justice, no firm evidence, a suspect who appears to be vulnerable and a case built years after the events - the alleged offences took place in 2015/16. They need to be doing a lot better than they are at the moment to get a solid conviction.

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:53 pm Jail ain't much of a solution ( except to keep her from us ). She looks as if she is a psychopath. They have no remorse or empathy & normal people just cannot react to them. I read an interesting book about the St Albans Poisoner Graham Young. He was a psychopath. He was put in Broadmoor after some murders & managed to convince a gullible psychiatrist that he was " cured ". He was released to commit many more horrific poisonings. They can't help what they are. But obviously can't have them mixing with us. Probably quite a few drifting below the radar in Society.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:06 pm

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:53 pm Jail ain't much of a solution ( except to keep her from us ). She looks as if she is a psychopath. They have no remorse or empathy & normal people just cannot react to them. I read an interesting book about the St Albans Poisoner Graham Young. He was a psychopath. He was put in Broadmoor after some murders & managed to convince a gullible psychiatrist that he was " cured ". He was released to commit many more horrific poisonings. They can't help what they are. But obviously can't have them mixing with us. Probably quite a few drifting below the radar in Society.

This is the slight dilemma. Prison is obviously pretty pointless here, she won't be 'rehabilitated' and there's no prospect of her being given any chance whatsoever of contributing to society ever again. And locking her up, likely in segregation for the rest of her life, will cost a bomb. But if you disagree with the death penalty, which I still do, then I guess this is all we have as an option.

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:06 pm

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:53 pm Jail ain't much of a solution ( except to keep her from us ). She looks as if she is a psychopath. They have no remorse or empathy & normal people just cannot react to them. I read an interesting book about the St Albans Poisoner Graham Young. He was a psychopath. He was put in Broadmoor after some murders & managed to convince a gullible psychiatrist that he was " cured ". He was released to commit many more horrific poisonings. They can't help what they are. But obviously can't have them mixing with us. Probably quite a few drifting below the radar in Society.

This is the slight dilemma. Prison is obviously pretty pointless here, she won't be 'rehabilitated' and there's no prospect of her being given any chance whatsoever of contributing to society ever again. And locking her up, likely in segregation for the rest of her life, will cost a bomb. But if you disagree with the death penalty, which I still do, then I guess this is all we have as an option.

R (on the application of Bourgass and another) v Secretary of State for Justice [2015] UKSC 54 which led to the revision of the Secretary of State’s segregation policy. Read our evidence and legal submissions. The court ruled that prison governors who keep prisoners in solitary confinement for longer than 72 hours are acting unlawfully.

FrankOFile wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:57 pm Guilty m’lud.

spen666 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:20 pm

Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:06 pm

Friend or faux wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:53 pm Jail ain't much of a solution ( except to keep her from us ). She looks as if she is a psychopath. They have no remorse or empathy & normal people just cannot react to them. I read an interesting book about the St Albans Poisoner Graham Young. He was a psychopath. He was put in Broadmoor after some murders & managed to convince a gullible psychiatrist that he was " cured ". He was released to commit many more horrific poisonings. They can't help what they are. But obviously can't have them mixing with us. Probably quite a few drifting below the radar in Society.

This is the slight dilemma. Prison is obviously pretty pointless here, she won't be 'rehabilitated' and there's no prospect of her being given any chance whatsoever of contributing to society ever again. And locking her up, likely in segregation for the rest of her life, will cost a bomb. But if you disagree with the death penalty, which I still do, then I guess this is all we have as an option.

She is very unlikely to be held in solitary confinement for the rest of her life.

This from the Howard League

R (on the application of Bourgass and another) v Secretary of State for Justice [2015] UKSC 54 which led to the revision of the Secretary of State’s segregation policy. Read our evidence and legal submissions. The court ruled that prison governors who keep prisoners in solitary confinement for longer than 72 hours are acting unlawfully.

As others have said the detention in prison is the punishment. Imprisonment does not have to be for rehabilitation, it can be for retribution