Don't forget all this started under Hearn and the development of the kids. We've been selling loads to premier clubs for quite sometime now mostly at the 14/15/16 age group. So from that perspective it's been quite prolific in finding talent. Probably still delivering cash through add ons and sell on fees etc.
I guess that's why we get so attached to the kids coming through as they are Orient through and through.
I'm not saying we can't sell anyone or that no one should better themselves it just the timing of all this happening. We as a club have been to hell and back, and JE delivered like no one had delivered in a very long time and just as you can sense we are going in the right direction and forwards in a positive manner we lose the beat thing to happen to us since Bloomfield. Now we are losing all our best players.
Gutted is not coming close as to how I feel this summer.
Beg to differ
There has been youth teams at Leyton Orient well before Barry Hearn appeared
Never said there wasn't, I was part of it at one time. The point I was making the production line started up big time around the beginning of slade times. We are and have been seeing the benefit of that decision this past few years.
Again beg to differ
Look at the history books on how many decent youth where sold on pre Hearn
The youth set up has always been pretty decent at Orient
We went for a long time not really producing much for first teamers though. Zakuani and Demetriou were the only two really, Brian Saah at a push as we had a few seasons from him but he went downwards rather than up.
Then there was Moses for a big money success then the current crop down to the work of Edwards, Webb etc.
Token wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:51 pm
If Happe goes for a million that’s £1.5 million from the academy in the space of 2 weeks. Add to that that there’s no way we’d have got promoted out of that hell hole without all those youth players I’d say the Academy has paid its way for the next decade at least
If Happe goes for £1m? There’s literally no way we’ll get anywhere near that sort of money.
He’s got a good career ahead of him, possibly at Championship level if things work out for him, but he is not quick enough or dominant enough to play in the top division.
Again, I really hope this is nonsense as well and he’s still here next season.
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 pm
I agree Happe will definitely play at a higher level but it would be nice if we didn't sell anymore of our best players until we've consolidated ourselves back in the EFL.
Exactly this.
I also believe that if JE was still with us not one of those players would have left this season. Next maybe, probably, but they'd have all been on the bus for the journey out of league 2 this coming season. His loss cannot be underestimated for this clubs future in the short term at least (not forgetting his families loss either of course)
Didn't someone at the club say that JE had explicitly given Koroma his blessing to go?
I'm fed up at losing these players but was there ever going to be anything the club could do about it? Its not like they're signing for our rivals is it? They're getting chances at substantially bigger clubs.
Its time for the next batch to step up, Ogie, Kyprianou, Sweeney, Shabani, Sotiriou.
Token wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:51 pm
If Happe goes for a million that’s £1.5 million from the academy in the space of 2 weeks. Add to that that there’s no way we’d have got promoted out of that hell hole without all those youth players I’d say the Academy has paid its way for the next decade at least
If Happe goes for £1m? There’s literally no way we’ll get anywhere near that sort of money.
He’s got a good career ahead of him, possibly at Championship level if things work out for him, but he is not quick enough or dominant enough to play in the top division.
Again, I really hope this is nonsense as well and he’s still here next season.
What if a transfer was true AND he was still here next season (albeit on loan) though?
Agree that he isn't a £1mill player and that the Championship is his ceiling btw. I think someone will slightly overpay or a higher team take a chance based on him being left footed and tall.
Token wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:51 pm
If Happe goes for a million that’s £1.5 million from the academy in the space of 2 weeks. Add to that that there’s no way we’d have got promoted out of that hell hole without all those youth players I’d say the Academy has paid its way for the next decade at least
If Happe goes for £1m? There’s literally no way we’ll get anywhere near that sort of money.
He’s got a good career ahead of him, possibly at Championship level if things work out for him, but he is not quick enough or dominant enough to play in the top division.
Again, I really hope this is nonsense as well and he’s still here next season.
This.
Lacks a yard of pace and I would be amazed if he played in the prem. His value is probably £500k tops but I would take that because Ogie is going to be a good player and we have excellent cover for a Happe in Turley.
RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 pm
I agree Happe will definitely play at a higher level but it would be nice if we didn't sell anymore of our best players until we've consolidated ourselves back in the EFL.
Exactly this.
I also believe that if JE was still with us not one of those players would have left this season. Next maybe, probably, but they'd have all been on the bus for the journey out of league 2 this coming season. His loss cannot be underestimated for this clubs future in the short term at least (not forgetting his families loss either of course)
Didn't someone at the club say that JE had explicitly given Koroma his blessing to go?
I'm fed up at losing these players but was there ever going to be anything the club could do about it? Its not like they're signing for our rivals is it? They're getting chances at substantially bigger clubs.
Its time for the next batch to step up, Ogie, Kyprianou, Sweeney, Shabani, Sotiriou.
Koroma was given assurances when he signed his new contract it was a gentlemans agreement that he could leave this summer if we got an acceptable offer. I don't think the next batch will disappoint, Ogie and Kyprianou are both going to have good careers and Shabani is very very promising as are the other two lads I think you could see a lot of the youngsters in the cup competitions this season.
Looking at the rumoured fees for other players (Bonne £200k, Koroma £500k) plus a supposed £75k for Judd, lets not get our hopes up.
Around £250k plus add-ons seems a price the club will deal at.
A loan back isn't necessarily the best plan, that happened with Abrahams but his loyalties were split between playing for their U23s and us. On balance I would prefer a clean break and get a player who has something to play for.
I think it'd be fairly easy to replace Happe with a bog-standard L2 centre-half but not easy to improve upon him.
eagwgw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:06 am
Looking at the rumoured fees for other players (Bonne £200k, Koroma £500k) plus a supposed £75k for Judd, lets not get our hopes up.
Around £250k plus add-ons seems a price the club will deal at.
A loan back isn't necessarily the best plan, that happened with Abrahams but his loyalties were split between playing for their U23s and us. On balance I would prefer a clean break and get a player who has something to play for.
I think it'd be fairly easy to replace Happe with a bog-standard L2 centre-half but not easy to improve upon him.
It depends on the circumstances of the loan. If we signed him on loan as a condition of the transfer to exclusively play for us then I can't see the harm myself. Imagine he would be sent out on loan anyway.
ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:07 pm
Im sick of people saying " if they want to further themselves, you cant stop them" Oh yes you can !
You say no....like Hearn did when Slade wanted to talk to Barnsley
Ultimately the owners duty is to Leyton Orient, not to further the career of young men.
I don’t think that Hearn is an example of an owner who showed a “ duty to Leyton Orient” tbf! Never was a chairman more inclined to sell players at the drop of a hat than Bazza!
eagwgw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:06 am
Looking at the rumoured fees for other players (Bonne £200k, Koroma £500k) plus a supposed £75k for Judd, lets not get our hopes up.
Around £250k plus add-ons seems a price the club will deal at.
A loan back isn't necessarily the best plan, that happened with Abrahams but his loyalties were split between playing for their U23s and us. On balance I would prefer a clean break and get a player who has something to play for.
I think it'd be fairly easy to replace Happe with a bog-standard L2 centre-half but not easy to improve upon him.
This as well.
If the rumoured prices for Bonne, Koroma and Judd are all correct, where the hell are people getting £1m from? No way will anyone offer anywhere near that. And I reckon we'd let him go for the same sort of money as Judd.
It's a shame because him and Marvin could have been the defence we built around all the way up to the Championship. But equally, he's our 3rd choice centre half at the moment and if we go back to 4-4-2 he won't even be a starter. It's a loss for squad strength and for the long term but doesn't weaken our starting 11 in the way the sales of Bonne and Koroma have.
eagwgw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:06 am
Looking at the rumoured fees for other players (Bonne £200k, Koroma £500k) plus a supposed £75k for Judd, lets not get our hopes up.
Around £250k plus add-ons seems a price the club will deal at.
A loan back isn't necessarily the best plan, that happened with Abrahams but his loyalties were split between playing for their U23s and us. On balance I would prefer a clean break and get a player who has something to play for.
I think it'd be fairly easy to replace Happe with a bog-standard L2 centre-half but not easy to improve upon him.
This as well.
If the rumoured prices for Bonne, Koroma and Judd are all correct, where the hell are people getting £1m from? No way will anyone offer anywhere near that. And I reckon we'd let him go for the same sort of money as Judd.
It's a shame because him and Marvin could have been the defence we built around all the way up to the Championship. But equally, he's our 3rd choice centre half at the moment and if we go back to 4-4-2 he won't even be a starter. It's a loss for squad strength and for the long term but doesn't weaken our starting 11 in the way the sales of Bonne and Koroma have.
£1m
With Ekpiteta out of contract next season we possibly could lose him too.
Token wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:51 pm
If Happe goes for a million that’s £1.5 million from the academy in the space of 2 weeks. Add to that that there’s no way we’d have got promoted out of that hell hole without all those youth players I’d say the Academy has paid its way for the next decade at least
If Happe goes for £1m? There’s literally no way we’ll get anywhere near that sort of money.
He’s got a good career ahead of him, possibly at Championship level if things work out for him, but he is not quick enough or dominant enough to play in the top division.
Again, I really hope this is nonsense as well and he’s still here next season.
What if a transfer was true AND he was still here next season (albeit on loan) though?
Agree that he isn't a £1mill player and that the Championship is his ceiling btw. I think someone will slightly overpay or a higher team take a chance based on him being left footed and tall.
What did you think of Maguire when he played against us 5 years ago, as a 22 year old?
If Happe goes for £1m? There’s literally no way we’ll get anywhere near that sort of money.
He’s got a good career ahead of him, possibly at Championship level if things work out for him, but he is not quick enough or dominant enough to play in the top division.
Again, I really hope this is nonsense as well and he’s still here next season.
What if a transfer was true AND he was still here next season (albeit on loan) though?
Agree that he isn't a £1mill player and that the Championship is his ceiling btw. I think someone will slightly overpay or a higher team take a chance based on him being left footed and tall.
What did you think of Maguire when he played against us 5 years ago, as a 22 year old?
If Happe goes for £1m? There’s literally no way we’ll get anywhere near that sort of money.
He’s got a good career ahead of him, possibly at Championship level if things work out for him, but he is not quick enough or dominant enough to play in the top division.
Again, I really hope this is nonsense as well and he’s still here next season.
What if a transfer was true AND he was still here next season (albeit on loan) though?
Agree that he isn't a £1mill player and that the Championship is his ceiling btw. I think someone will slightly overpay or a higher team take a chance based on him being left footed and tall.
What did you think of Maguire when he played against us 5 years ago, as a 22 year old?
I didn't see Maguire when he played against us 5 years ago.
I actually like it when we sell on our players to clubs higher up the leagues and enjoy saying stuff like " had him at Orient you know" with a knowing look. I dont blame the players at all for moving on or the club for cashing in- as long as we keep producing and identifying the next batch.
What if a transfer was true AND he was still here next season (albeit on loan) though?
Agree that he isn't a £1mill player and that the Championship is his ceiling btw. I think someone will slightly overpay or a higher team take a chance based on him being left footed and tall.
What did you think of Maguire when he played against us 5 years ago, as a 22 year old?
Constanza wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:04 am
I actually like it when we sell on our players to clubs higher up the leagues and enjoy saying stuff like " had him at Orient you know" with a knowing look. I dont blame the players at all for moving on or the club for cashing in- as long as we keep producing and identifying the next batch.
'Cashing in' is fine. If it's £1m.
£75k and you have to ask yourself what's the point.
Something to bare in mind is that a club has to have a valuation of every player on their books and that value is calculated ultimately by what the club is willing to pay the player in wages, bonuses.etc If you hold out for a transfer fee of £500k (just for example) for Judd then he will demand that you increase his wages to a level comparable with other £500k valued players, which is a damn sight more a week than a £75k player. If you don't feel that Judd is worth more than (again, for example) £2K a week (the average weekly wage of a £75k valued player) then you're going to be obliged to sell him for the commensurate market value.
