Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I sense an air of impending doom.

I struggle with the idea that people think we are able to keep players who want to move up. Players are ambitious too and they have a right to try further up the league. No different from us changing our jobs.

Clubs have limited control and have to make the best they can out of the situation, Bonne, Koroma and others who may leave have contributed fully to the success of the club and if in doing so became targets for bigger clubs, so be it. I’d sooner have players who are good but may move up. No different from us not renewing contracts for players we no longer want.

All Ling and the owners can do is make the most of the situation, and they have in my opinion. Fees for outgoing players and seemingly decent replacements.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:54 am I struggle with the idea that people think we are able to keep players who want to move up. Players are ambitious too and they have a right to try further up the league. No different from us changing our jobs.

Clubs have limited control and have to make the best they can out of the situation, Bonne, Koroma and others who may leave have contributed fully to the success of the club and if in doing so became targets for bigger clubs, so be it. I’d sooner have players who are good but may move up. No different from us not renewing contracts for players we no longer want.

All Ling and the owners can do is make the most of the situation, and they have in my opinion. Fees for outgoing players and seemingly decent replacements.

It's not so much the players moving on but the lack of signings coming in to replace them. We needed to increase the squad to improve but so far only succeeded in weakening it. Given there's more chance of 2 further departures than signings that's why people are getting twitchy.

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 am

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:54 am I struggle with the idea that people think we are able to keep players who want to move up. Players are ambitious too and they have a right to try further up the league. No different from us changing our jobs.

Clubs have limited control and have to make the best they can out of the situation, Bonne, Koroma and others who may leave have contributed fully to the success of the club and if in doing so became targets for bigger clubs, so be it. I’d sooner have players who are good but may move up. No different from us not renewing contracts for players we no longer want.

All Ling and the owners can do is make the most of the situation, and they have in my opinion. Fees for outgoing players and seemingly decent replacements.

It's not so much the players moving on but the lack of signings coming in to replace them. We needed to increase the squad to improve but so far only succeeded in weakening it. Given there's more chance of 2 further departures than signings that's why people are getting twitchy.

We sold two strikers, we signed two strikers. One of them was signed just hours after the first sale.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:39 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 am

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:54 am I struggle with the idea that people think we are able to keep players who want to move up. Players are ambitious too and they have a right to try further up the league. No different from us changing our jobs.

Clubs have limited control and have to make the best they can out of the situation, Bonne, Koroma and others who may leave have contributed fully to the success of the club and if in doing so became targets for bigger clubs, so be it. I’d sooner have players who are good but may move up. No different from us not renewing contracts for players we no longer want.

All Ling and the owners can do is make the most of the situation, and they have in my opinion. Fees for outgoing players and seemingly decent replacements.

It's not so much the players moving on but the lack of signings coming in to replace them. We needed to increase the squad to improve but so far only succeeded in weakening it. Given there's more chance of 2 further departures than signings that's why people are getting twitchy.

We sold two strikers, we signed two strikers. One of them was signed just hours after the first sale.

In fairness to gshaw, we've also let go of Lawless and Lee and only replaced one of them and definitely need another central midfielder. The Dayton situation will be resolved one way or the other soon too. And we need another winger.

What I do take issue with is there being more chance of two further departures than two new signings. Just sheer nonsense and nothing but confirmation bias.

Listen to Bonnes interview on orient player and he was going nowhere. Justin sadly passes away and the whole picture changes.

I am convinced both he and Josh would have been here for the next chapter, you really can't underestimate the turmoil of what has happened to the club.

CreamofSumYungGai wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:29 am

Top of the West. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:26 am Funny how people's perspectives are skewed. Title of the post is "With all the selling going on" we have sold two players who we knew were going and paid a fee for two players.

We may sell another one or two we buy another one or two, not so bad really is it?

We didn't know they were going. Let's not rewrite history. All the talk end of season was this group of players being given the chance to go again, Travis warning there would only be 1 or 2 changes max.

It is bad if the players coming in are of a lesser quality than those coming in. Especially when in a higher division than last season.

Not rewriting anything, but when they both signed new contracts it was patently obvious that in doing so they were never going to see them out
and we would cash in before the contracts ran out, did you not think that was going to happen? quite obvious to me and those who sit around me at games they were going this summer so hardly a surprise. Travis knew they were going in the video he released and there may yet be more out goings, every player has his price and like it or not we are a long way down the food chain.

Wilkinson and Angol will I'm sure have an impact they have a hard act to follow but it's rare to pick up a striker in who scores 49 in two seasons in the way we picked up Bonne and while I'm sure both will do well it would be fanciful to expect them to reach those levels but both were JE targets which gives me a bit more confidence.

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:35 am Listen to Bonnes interview on orient player and he was going nowhere. Justin sadly passes away and the whole picture changes.

I am convinced both he and Josh would have been here for the next chapter, you really can't underestimate the turmoil of what has happened to the club.

Not sure what Bonne was supposed to say though Thor, couldn't say my agent is in talks with Charlton and I'm going next month could he. The club agreed a release clause in his contract extension and he was told he could go at the end of the season if the release fee was met, we could have sold him in January but he didn't go partly because he was guaranteed a move this summer. Josh was also told that the club would do the right thing by him when he renewed his contract and that's what they did, Ling in one of his videos acknowledged that the club turned down offers in January for Josh too, both players were happy to stay and help the club to promotion knowing they could move this summer - both sales would have happened if JE was still our manager.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:39 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 am

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:54 am I struggle with the idea that people think we are able to keep players who want to move up. Players are ambitious too and they have a right to try further up the league. No different from us changing our jobs.

Clubs have limited control and have to make the best they can out of the situation, Bonne, Koroma and others who may leave have contributed fully to the success of the club and if in doing so became targets for bigger clubs, so be it. I’d sooner have players who are good but may move up. No different from us not renewing contracts for players we no longer want.

All Ling and the owners can do is make the most of the situation, and they have in my opinion. Fees for outgoing players and seemingly decent replacements.

It's not so much the players moving on but the lack of signings coming in to replace them. We needed to increase the squad to improve but so far only succeeded in weakening it. Given there's more chance of 2 further departures than signings that's why people are getting twitchy.

We sold two strikers, we signed two strikers. One of them was signed just hours after the first sale.

More to the point strikers that had been identified as replacements should we lose two strikers. Good planning and well executed. Wright too seemed to have been identified early as a replacement for Lawless or Lee. Hard to fault the club. Still short in CM but who knows what players were identified and whether they went elsewhere or still negotiating. Contract extensions were sorted quickly except for Turley which took a little longer.

I’m not too sure what else the club can do.

Sure there may well be other leavers and I suspect this has been considered by the club and they have contingency plans in place should it happen.

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:05 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:39 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:34 am

It's not so much the players moving on but the lack of signings coming in to replace them. We needed to increase the squad to improve but so far only succeeded in weakening it. Given there's more chance of 2 further departures than signings that's why people are getting twitchy.

We sold two strikers, we signed two strikers. One of them was signed just hours after the first sale.

More to the point strikers that had been identified as replacements should we lose two strikers. Good planning and well executed. Wright too seemed to have been identified early as a replacement for Lawless or Lee. Hard to fault the club. Still short in CM but who knows what players were identified and whether they went elsewhere or still negotiating. Contract extensions were sorted quickly except for Turley which took a little longer.

I’m not too sure what else the club can do.

Sure there may well be other leavers and I suspect this has been considered by the club and they have contingency plans in place should it happen.

Now where's the two strikers that need to come in to enhance the squad strength? That's what some people seem to be failing to grasp; we needed two strikers coming in before the departures yet some seem happy with only two coming in after losing two more

Were these two going to be the extra players or does the club not intend to add any more, that's the big question over our ambitions for this season.

Bonne and Koroma leaving was pretty much a given and having stayed in January they earned the agreement to move on when the offers came in. No qualms about that at all and hope they smash it at their new clubs.

The additional potential sales of Judd and Happe raise a bit of an eyebrow though, can't see Judd being replaced so again it's a case of hoping we don't get simultaneous injuries to RB and CB as Turley can't be in two places at once.

Released 4 strikers, signed two
Released 2 midfielders, signed one

When that changes then the club has done enough.

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:52 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:05 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:39 am

We sold two strikers, we signed two strikers. One of them was signed just hours after the first sale.

More to the point strikers that had been identified as replacements should we lose two strikers. Good planning and well executed. Wright too seemed to have been identified early as a replacement for Lawless or Lee. Hard to fault the club. Still short in CM but who knows what players were identified and whether they went elsewhere or still negotiating. Contract extensions were sorted quickly except for Turley which took a little longer.

I’m not too sure what else the club can do.

Sure there may well be other leavers and I suspect this has been considered by the club and they have contingency plans in place should it happen.

Now where's the two strikers that need to come in to enhance the squad strength? That's what some people seem to be failing to grasp; we needed two strikers coming in before the departures yet some seem happy with only two coming in after losing two more

Were these two going to be the extra players or does the club not intend to add any more, that's the big question over our ambitions for this season.

That's not true though is it? We could have done with one extra striker. It doesn't really matter in which order they come, to be honest.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:54 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:52 pm

dOh Nut wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:05 pm

More to the point strikers that had been identified as replacements should we lose two strikers. Good planning and well executed. Wright too seemed to have been identified early as a replacement for Lawless or Lee. Hard to fault the club. Still short in CM but who knows what players were identified and whether they went elsewhere or still negotiating. Contract extensions were sorted quickly except for Turley which took a little longer.

I’m not too sure what else the club can do.

Sure there may well be other leavers and I suspect this has been considered by the club and they have contingency plans in place should it happen.

Now where's the two strikers that need to come in to enhance the squad strength? That's what some people seem to be failing to grasp; we needed two strikers coming in before the departures yet some seem happy with only two coming in after losing two more

Were these two going to be the extra players or does the club not intend to add any more, that's the big question over our ambitions for this season.

That's not true though is it? We could have done with one extra striker. It doesn't really matter in which order they come, to be honest.

You're rewriting history if you're saying anyone thought our striking cover was sufficient last season. Alabi poor, Harrold poor until JE figured out the battering ram plan for him and Simpson was an emergency plan for our dearth of choices when Koroma picked up an injury.

So we're still in that position now either having to play a 35 y/o, Alabi or a kid who hasn't even played at NL level let alone L2. Not good options if either of the new front two aren't available.

I just don't want us to sell any more of our best players. I want us to do well this season and not get involved in a relegation dogfight.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:14 pm I just don't want us to sell any more of our best players. I want us to do well this season and not get involved in a relegation dogfight.

You and me both. I'm not hoping for promotion or even play-offs, just want to comfortably re-establish ourselves as a league club again and never worry about seeing that tinpot NL ever again

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:20 pm

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:14 pm I just don't want us to sell any more of our best players. I want us to do well this season and not get involved in a relegation dogfight.

You and me both. I'm not hoping for promotion or even play-offs, just want to comfortably re-establish ourselves as a league club again and never worry about seeing that tinpot NL ever again

I am always hoping for promotion but would be happy to re-establish ourselves as a league club for the first year and never ever want to drop to the National League again.

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:58 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:54 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:52 pm

Now where's the two strikers that need to come in to enhance the squad strength? That's what some people seem to be failing to grasp; we needed two strikers coming in before the departures yet some seem happy with only two coming in after losing two more

Were these two going to be the extra players or does the club not intend to add any more, that's the big question over our ambitions for this season.

That's not true though is it? We could have done with one extra striker. It doesn't really matter in which order they come, to be honest.

You're rewriting history if you're saying anyone thought our striking cover was sufficient last season. Alabi poor, Harrold poor until JE figured out the battering ram plan for him and Simpson was an emergency plan for our dearth of choices when Koroma picked up an injury.

So we're still in that position now either having to play a 35 y/o, Alabi or a kid who hasn't even played at NL level let alone L2. Not good options if either of the new front two aren't available.

Not at all. The plan is to have 5 strikers, hence why Alabi has been listed. LA, CW, MH, RS and one other if more than enough options.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:34 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:58 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:54 pm

That's not true though is it? We could have done with one extra striker. It doesn't really matter in which order they come, to be honest.

You're rewriting history if you're saying anyone thought our striking cover was sufficient last season. Alabi poor, Harrold poor until JE figured out the battering ram plan for him and Simpson was an emergency plan for our dearth of choices when Koroma picked up an injury.

So we're still in that position now either having to play a 35 y/o, Alabi or a kid who hasn't even played at NL level let alone L2. Not good options if either of the new front two aren't available.

Not at all. The plan is to have 5 strikers, hence why Alabi has been listed. LA, CW, MH, RS and one other if more than enough options.

These new initials are gonna take some getting used to. A 35 year old playing 20 mins and an unproven youth aren't starting options. Better hope we don't pick up any injuries to LA and CW then.

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:34 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:58 pm

You're rewriting history if you're saying anyone thought our striking cover was sufficient last season. Alabi poor, Harrold poor until JE figured out the battering ram plan for him and Simpson was an emergency plan for our dearth of choices when Koroma picked up an injury.

So we're still in that position now either having to play a 35 y/o, Alabi or a kid who hasn't even played at NL level let alone L2. Not good options if either of the new front two aren't available.

Not at all. The plan is to have 5 strikers, hence why Alabi has been listed. LA, CW, MH, RS and one other if more than enough options.

These new initials are gonna take some getting used to. A 35 year old playing 20 mins and an unproven youth aren't starting options. Better hope we don't pick up any injuries to LA and CW then.

I don't know where this thing about Harrold only being able to play 20 minutes has come from. He started games in the second half of the season and did well.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:57 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:34 pm

Not at all. The plan is to have 5 strikers, hence why Alabi has been listed. LA, CW, MH, RS and one other if more than enough options.

These new initials are gonna take some getting used to. A 35 year old playing 20 mins and an unproven youth aren't starting options. Better hope we don't pick up any injuries to LA and CW then.

I don't know where this thing about Harrold only being able to play 20 minutes has come from. He started games in the second half of the season and did well.

The first year and a half of his time here. Spent more time on the treatment table than out on pitch. I also remember the game at Dagenham where he was slow getting out to a loose ball and we ended up conceding the game changing goal from it. With a Bonne or Koroma type chasing that down we go on a counter attack instead.

Good option at the end of a game to go route one as he proved with some vital goals at the tail end of the season, as well as holding up the ball to see out the last 10 when under pressure but as a starter no way.

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:24 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:57 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm

These new initials are gonna take some getting used to. A 35 year old playing 20 mins and an unproven youth aren't starting options. Better hope we don't pick up any injuries to LA and CW then.

I don't know where this thing about Harrold only being able to play 20 minutes has come from. He started games in the second half of the season and did well.

The first year and a half of his time here. Spent more time on the treatment table than out on pitch. I also remember the game at Dagenham where he was slow getting out to a loose ball and we ended up conceding the game changing goal from it. With a Bonne or Koroma type chasing that down we go on a counter attack instead.

Good option at the end of a game to go route one as he proved with some vital goals at the tail end of the season, as well as holding up the ball to see out the last 10 when under pressure but as a starter no way.

The whole injury prone thing is nonsense though isn't it. He was available more than Koroma last season.

That one particular example is a rubbish reason for criticising him. The debate was had at the time, but there are all manner of variables that make that a load of nonsense.

I like MH, good pro, good player and I'd rather he'd be in my team than playing against him.

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:52 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:24 pm

Red_Army wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:57 pm

I don't know where this thing about Harrold only being able to play 20 minutes has come from. He started games in the second half of the season and did well.

The first year and a half of his time here. Spent more time on the treatment table than out on pitch. I also remember the game at Dagenham where he was slow getting out to a loose ball and we ended up conceding the game changing goal from it. With a Bonne or Koroma type chasing that down we go on a counter attack instead.

Good option at the end of a game to go route one as he proved with some vital goals at the tail end of the season, as well as holding up the ball to see out the last 10 when under pressure but as a starter no way.

The whole injury prone thing is nonsense though isn't it. He was available more than Koroma last season.

That one particular example is a rubbish reason for criticising him. The debate was had at the time, but there are all manner of variables that make that a load of nonsense.

Koroma running his nads off for 90 minutes and getting kicked to kingdom come can't be compared with Harrold being available to do 20 here and there. Ask Harrold to do that same amount of running about and he'll struggle same as in his first year here.

He gives you a physical presence for long balls and crosses yes but in our normal style that relies on movement and agility he struggled to make much impact. That's about playing to his strengths, which JE realised and then used MH to great effect towards end of the season.

The exception to all this is if we change style as per the other thread and go long ball with him winning headers for someone else to run into and / or loading crosses into the box for him to attack. If that's the case Brophy needs to be working on his delivery as it's one thing that lets him down at present.

Cheshunto wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:37 am Too many people panicking on here.

Yep. No reason for them to be sh!tting their pants. Let them sit in it.