Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Posted: **Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:40 pm**

Cavalier wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:00 pm I’ve said on here previously that there is no evidence to support wearing masks. Here is a report which again proves that they provide no benefit to the wearer or anyone else for that matter.

It’s all about control.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dence.html
They said for months on end that Mask were a waste of time.
No evidence to suggest they prevent the spread of the virus.
But we all go along with this nonsense.
Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t reduced the hospital beds from 300k in 1990 down to 145k now, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Uk population 1990 57 m.
2020 67 m.
10m more people and less than half the hospital beds.

Is tis the End of Thorson & the start of the Cavalier assertion ?

Posted: **Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 pm**

Cavalier wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:00 pm I’ve said on here previously that there is no evidence to support wearing masks. Here is a report which again proves that they provide no benefit to the wearer or anyone else for that matter.

It’s all about control.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dence.html
They said for months on end that Mask were a waste of time.
No evidence to suggest they prevent the spread of the virus.
But we all go along with this nonsense.
Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t reduced the hospital beds from 300k in 1990 down to 145k now, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Uk population 1990 57 m.
2020 67 m.
10m more people and less than half the hospital beds.

Please reference the hospital bed stats, very interested to read

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:29 am**

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 pm
Cavalier wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm
Thor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:00 pm I’ve said on here previously that there is no evidence to support wearing masks. Here is a report which again proves that they provide no benefit to the wearer or anyone else for that matter.

It’s all about control.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dence.html
They said for months on end that Mask were a waste of time.
No evidence to suggest they prevent the spread of the virus.
But we all go along with this nonsense.
Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t reduced the hospital beds from 300k in 1990 down to 145k now, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Uk population 1990 57 m.
2020 67 m.
10m more people and less than half the hospital beds.
Please reference the hospital bed stats, very interested to read

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... ed-numbers

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:34 am**

I thought the people here in the US were conspiracy theorists but reading this thread I realize we aren't alone. Seems the UK is just as bad as the US in people only concerned with themselves. Who cares how many are dying!

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:35 am**

Cavalier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:29 am
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 pm
Cavalier wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm

They said for months on end that Mask were a waste of time.
No evidence to suggest they prevent the spread of the virus.
But we all go along with this nonsense.
Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t reduced the hospital beds from 300k in 1990 down to 145k now, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Uk population 1990 57 m.
2020 67 m.
10m more people and less than half the hospital beds.
Please reference the hospital bed stats, very interested to read
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... ed-numbers

Successive governments have been a disgrace, and I include Labour in this.
Hospitals have regularly been over 90% capacity in the winter.
There is no spare capacity for any unforeseen events.
Useless, wasteful, incompetent politicians.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:34 am**

Cavalier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:29 am
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 pm
Cavalier wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm

They said for months on end that Mask were a waste of time.
No evidence to suggest they prevent the spread of the virus.
But we all go along with this nonsense.
Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t reduced the hospital beds from 300k in 1990 down to 145k now, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Uk population 1990 57 m.
2020 67 m.
10m more people and less than half the hospital beds.
Please reference the hospital bed stats, very interested to read
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... ed-numbers

This was updated just after the march lockdown .

So not a really valuable piece of evidence with regards to covud.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:36 am**

Simple Man wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:34 am I thought the people here in the US were conspiracy theorists but reading this thread I realize we aren't alone. Seems the UK is just as bad as the US in people only concerned with themselves. Who cares how many are dying!

Plenty care how many die fella

Some just like to think they are young &
They dont need to be concerned.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:10 am**

Confucius say: ‘Death and taxes only sure thing in life.’

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:30 am**

Cavalier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:29 am
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 pm
Cavalier wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm

They said for months on end that Mask were a waste of time.
No evidence to suggest they prevent the spread of the virus.
But we all go along with this nonsense.
Perhaps if successive governments hadn’t reduced the hospital beds from 300k in 1990 down to 145k now, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Uk population 1990 57 m.
2020 67 m.
10m more people and less than half the hospital beds.
Please reference the hospital bed stats, very interested to read
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... ed-numbers

Paragraphs 2 and 3, posted to add further context to the headline figures (although I imagine he'll try and start an argument)

"Since 1987/88, the largest percentage reductions in bed numbers have occurred in mental illness and learning disability beds as a result of long-term policies to move these patients out of hospital and provide care in the community"

"The number of hospital beds for general and acute care has fallen by 34 per cent since 1987/88, the bulk of this fall due to closures of beds for the long-term care of older people. Medical innovation, including an increase in day-case surgery, has also had an impact by reducing the time that many patients spend in hospital".

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:39 am**

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:30 am
Cavalier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:29 am
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:16 pm

Please reference the hospital bed stats, very interested to read
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... ed-numbers
Paragraphs 2 and 3, posted to add further context to the headline figures (although I imagine he'll try and start an argument)

"Since 1987/88, the largest percentage reductions in bed numbers have occurred in mental illness and learning disability beds as a result of long-term policies to move these patients out of hospital and provide care in the community"

"The number of hospital beds for general and acute care has fallen by 34 per cent since 1987/88, the bulk of this fall due to closures of beds for the long-term care of older people. Medical innovation, including an increase in day-case surgery, has also had an impact by reducing the time that many patients spend in hospital".

I was aware of that.
It doesn’t alter the fact that we have an increase in population of at least 10m and the NHS has got less beds for emergencies. Note the 90% plus capacity during the winter.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:43 am**

If your concern is A&E capacity why not discuss those figures instead of all beds in the entire NHS?

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:04 am**

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:43 am If your concern is A&E capacity why not discuss those figures instead of all beds in the entire NHS?

Fail to see your point.
The fact is the population has increased by 10 m and people are stuck in corridors waiting 12 hours for a bed.
I would have thought if you increase the population by this ridiculous amount, then you increase the infrastructure to cover this.
These are ALL emergency beds. Hospitals are not convalescent homes.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:06 am**

Cavalier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:04 am
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:43 am If your concern is A&E capacity why not discuss those figures instead of all beds in the entire NHS?
Fail to see your point.
The fact is the population has increased by 10 m and people are stuck in corridors waiting 12 hours for a bed.
I would have thought if you increase the population by this ridiculous amount, then you increase the infrastructure to cover this.
These are ALL emergency beds. Hospitals are not convalescent homes.

If your concern is capcity within certain wards/departments within the NHS then perhaps quote those statistics. Instead of the number of beds in the entire NHS.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:24 am**

General and acute beds were 180 k 30 years ago.
Now 100 k.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... ed-numbers

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:30 am**

There you go

Thanks for attending my Boardin' 101 seminar, don't forget to hit that subscribe button

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:06 pm**

Thor wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:43 pm I’m not saying it’s a hoax, it’s real very real, but not as dangerous as the mainstream media make it out to be.

Can understand why a lot of people would think that just looking at the stats.

But maybe think a bit outside of the box? Like the fact that people aren’t socialising like a normal year, as one example, which may JUST mean that the stats don’t tell the full story?

Thought you were all about not believing what you’re told without questioning why?

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:49 pm**

I would imagine most on this board believe that the Government has fallen short on this. We needed strong governance, clear communication, and we have had neither.
But who has answers to these questions.

1. What is the point of track and trace unless it is compulsory for all. Forget the fact that it is faulty anyway and that if we have a vaccine , track and trace will disappear before it even achieves its purpose.
2. What is the point of testing unless everyone is tested on the same day , on the same minute , and has to stand in the same spot until the result comes through.
3. Bearing in mind that we have failed miserably on points 1 and 2 , how is this Government going to organise a mass vaccine programme.

It has taken 8 months and we still don’t have track and trace operating correctly. How long do people think it will take to organise point 3. It has chaos written all over it

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:52 pm**

George wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:49 pm I would imagine most on this board believe that the Government has fallen short on this. We needed strong governance, clear communication, and we have had neither.
But who has answers to these questions.

1. What is the point of track and trace unless it is compulsory for all. Forget the fact that it is faulty anyway and that if we have a vaccine , track and trace will disappear before it even achieves its purpose.
2. What is the point of testing unless everyone is tested on the same day , on the same minute , and has to stand in the same spot until the result comes through.
3. Bearing in mind that we have failed miserably on points 1 and 2 , how is this Government going to organise a mass vaccine programme.

It has taken 8 months and we still don’t have track and trace operating correctly. How long do people think it will take to organise point 3. It has chaos written all over it

If only we had a smaller population points 1-3 could be dealt with so much easier.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:27 pm**

Track and trace only works if you use it to contain the virus when infections are low. Pretty difficult to contain 20k+ people a day.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:28 pm**

Idiot. Is there any point you posting. Suppose your bored working from home

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:29 pm**

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:27 pm Track and trace only works if you use it to contain the virus when infections are low. Pretty difficult to contain 20k+ people a day.

Even if it's "world beating" ?

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:30 pm**

Prestige. Which is why I don’t understand it’s purpose. I wondered what others views were. Max knows the answers but is too stupid to share them intelligently

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:34 pm**

George wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:30 pm Prestige. Which is why I don’t understand it’s purpose. I wondered what others views were. Max knows the answers but is too stupid to share them intelligently

I did. Smaller population. Can't you read.

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:48 pm**

George wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:28 pm Idiot. Is there any point you posting. Suppose your bored working from home

Posted: **Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:49 pm**

George wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:30 pm Prestige. Which is why I don’t understand it’s purpose. I wondered what others views were. Max knows the answers but is too stupid to share them intelligently

Purpose is to try and contain the spread. Works in Asia but they've had practice and people are more compliant too

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