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2017 mate.Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:54 amTRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:36 amJust like the far right of the Labour party shut up when Corbyn had the 2017 election in the bag?Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:23 am Could the far left stfu until Sir Kier has the next election in the bag?when exactly was that then?
Here's a Jewish woman dealing out some truthsfaldO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:18 amProbably is, though I wonder why Mintpress don't correct it. One man's bollox is another man's truth.TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:15 am That would appear to be a load of bollox.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mint-press-news/
I'm not disagreeing with any of it. What lead you to that conclusion?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:40 am What part of Cooks article are you disagreeing with?
Here's another of his pieces where he points out that Jews are six times more likely to be expelled from the Labour Party than a non Jewish member.
Get your teeth into that and get down Labour HQ to protest against this blatant Antisemitism.
Ok, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.
Yes but it stopped in 2019, didn't it?faldO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:51 amI'm not disagreeing with any of it. What lead you to that conclusion?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:40 am What part of Cooks article are you disagreeing with?
Here's another of his pieces where he points out that Jews are six times more likely to be expelled from the Labour Party than a non Jewish member.
Get your teeth into that and get down Labour HQ to protest against this blatant Antisemitism.
I'm well aware of the problem of antisemitism in the Labour Party, it's been highlighted enough times. It's appalling.
No idea, ask Max, he's the expert.TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:15 pmYes but it stopped in 2019, didn't it?faldO wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:51 amI'm not disagreeing with any of it. What lead you to that conclusion?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:40 am What part of Cooks article are you disagreeing with?
Here's another of his pieces where he points out that Jews are six times more likely to be expelled from the Labour Party than a non Jewish member.
Get your teeth into that and get down Labour HQ to protest against this blatant Antisemitism.
I'm well aware of the problem of antisemitism in the Labour Party, it's been highlighted enough times. It's appalling.
You said it was in the bag. Evidence that Jeremy had it in the bag please.TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 pmOk, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.
I think the point he's making is that, even without the Labour right conspiring against them (which it is clear they did), Team Corbyn was never going to win in 2017. So it's a relatively mute/moot point.TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 pmOk, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.
How close were they to victory and did you factor in the diversion of funds to right wing MPs seats instead of to the key marginals?Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:32 pmI think the point he's making is that, even without the Labour right conspiring against them (which it is clear they did), Team Corbyn was never going to win in 2017. So it's a relatively mute/moot point.TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 pmOk, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.
We've been over this too many times, so I cannot bother digging the data out, but the key problem wasn't the number of votes. On that Labour actually did okay in 2017 and 2019. It was distribution of votes.
You also need to be careful not to over-state the degree to which a divided party would have put off potential voters in 2017, because there's not much evidence it did, and Corbyn at that time was even in his "honeymoon" period and had respectable approval ratings. He had, up to that point, also remained suitably vague and ambiguous on Labour's brexit position. Equally, it cannot be understated just what a disaster May's election campaign was, which Team Corbyn failed to fully capitalise on.
Labour lost in 2017 because it deserved to. And a victory was never "in the bag". Yes, it was conspired against and, yes, it did better than expected. But it deservedly lost.
And as for 2019....
I'm blaming the right wing of the labour party. The ones you're now asking everyone to get behind...Long slender neck wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:21 pmYou said it was in the bag. Evidence that Jeremy had it in the bag please.TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:14 pmOk, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.
Blame the right, blame the media, blame whoever. Jez had two bites at the cherry and failed. Time to move on.
Evidence please that Labour were never going to win the 2017 election.
How was that Brexit position arrived at?CEB wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 pm 2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.
Not true.CEB wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 pm 2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.
Depends on where you want to start counting from. My personal take is that the referendum should always have been framed consistently by Labour as David Cameron’s reckless attempt to remain in number 10, starting with active, unequivocal campaigning to vote remain. There was never any obligation for Labour to get dragged into Brexit aside from in saying “if there is to be a referendum, we support remaining”Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:52 pmHow was that Brexit position arrived at?CEB wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 pm 2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.
You don't think it was in any way a product of certain political forces within the Labour Party trying to impose an impossible position on the leadership then.CEB wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:01 pmDepends on where you want to start counting from. My personal take is that the referendum should always have been framed consistently by Labour as David Cameron’s reckless attempt to remain in number 10, starting with active, unequivocal campaigning to vote remain. There was never any obligation for Labour to get dragged into Brexit aside from in saying “if there is to be a referendum, we support remaining”Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:52 pmHow was that Brexit position arrived at?CEB wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 pm 2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.
Captain Charisma has just got lucky against a malfunctioning robotoryCurrywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:37 pm "Yougov is Tory owned"
"Any other leader would be 20 points ahead"
"But 2017"
Oh
Ahem.Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:22 am It's no biggie.
Sam Tarry is just setting out his stall in advance of the inevitable election defeat. He was fully aware of collective responsibility and that his actions would lead to his sacking. He's no virtuous martyr.
Starmer is also just as happy with how this plays out in the key marginal constituencies with swing voters. Trade Unions also do not need Westminster politicians.
The loony left completely lose the plot again, and never pass up an opportunity to make Labour infighting the headlines. That they're more animated by this than a Tory leadership candidate suggesting they'd make striking illegal shows how irrelevant they are.
