Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pm Attack attack attack! Will he learn?

People moan about why we don’t just attack. Then moan when we concede a goal like we concede today and can’t link the two in their heads

The thing with this England side in stark contrast to, say Germany is now clumsy and ponderous everything seems to look. An England player gets the ball, they look around, no-one is available, they look again (making shrugging gestures), turn back or sideways, look again, make a basic nothing pass.

The commentators called it in one move during the game where Kane had a cross field ball on early but instead of one touch and ping again he's looking, deciding, measuring like everything has to be just-so before the ball actually moves. By which time the opposition are back in shape and the impetus is gone.

Are the players being given such rigid instructions to play Embleton-ball they can't move it quicker or is this a symptom of poor tactics and preparation that the players simply don't know where their colleagues are going to be so nothing comes naturally?

Got away with it big time tonight but even the luck will run out eventually playing as bad as they did for 95 mins without a shot on target.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:27 pm The thing with this England side in stark contrast to, say Germany is now clumsy and ponderous everything seems to look. An England player gets the ball, they look around, no-one is available, they look again (making shrugging gestures), turn back or sideways, look again, make a basic nothing pass.

The commentators called it in one move during the game where Kane had a cross field ball on early but instead of one touch and ping again he's looking, deciding, measuring like everything has to be just-so before the ball actually moves. By which time the opposition are back in shape and the impetus is gone.

Are the players being given such rigid instructions to play Embleton-ball they can't move it quicker or is this a symptom of poor tactics and preparation that the players simply don't know where their colleagues are going to be so nothing comes naturally?

Got away with it big time tonight but even the luck will run out eventually playing as bad as they did for 95 mins without a shot on target.

Your summary is spot on . According to the commentators on tv we only had two shots on target . We'll need to do better to beat Switzerland

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:04 pm

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:55 pm Attack attack attack! Will he learn?

People moan about why we don’t just attack. Then moan when we concede a goal like we concede today and can’t link the two in their heads

So dont attack in case we concede?

Personally not fussed about their goal as we have the quality to squash sides like this IF we go for it.

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:43 pm Your summary is spot on . According to the commentators on tv we only had two shots on target . We'll need to do better to beat Switzerland

If you cast your mind back to when Southgate first came in what was really noticeable was the crisp forward passing and fluidity, why that gets dragged back to a pound shop imitation of 2010 Spain I do not know

did england play today??

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:52 pm did england play today??

No, they may have been present on the pitch but not much evidence of any play

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:56 pm

Give it to Jabo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:52 pm did england play today??

No, they may have been present on the pitch but not much evidence of any play

England got lucky this evening . We can't carry on relying on pulling a rabbit out of the hat .

RedDwarf 1881 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:43 pm

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:27 pm The thing with this England side in stark contrast to, say Germany is now clumsy and ponderous everything seems to look. An England player gets the ball, they look around, no-one is available, they look again (making shrugging gestures), turn back or sideways, look again, make a basic nothing pass.

The commentators called it in one move during the game where Kane had a cross field ball on early but instead of one touch and ping again he's looking, deciding, measuring like everything has to be just-so before the ball actually moves. By which time the opposition are back in shape and the impetus is gone.

Are the players being given such rigid instructions to play Embleton-ball they can't move it quicker or is this a symptom of poor tactics and preparation that the players simply don't know where their colleagues are going to be so nothing comes naturally?

Got away with it big time tonight but even the luck will run out eventually playing as bad as they did for 95 mins without a shot on target.

Your summary is spot on . According to the commentators on tv we only had two shots on target . We'll need to do better to beat Switzerland

2 shots, 2 goals. Unless they score 3, who says we have to do better than that against Switzerland?

LOL

We're better than the Swiss.

We're better than the Swiss.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:27 pm The thing with this England side in stark contrast to, say Germany is now clumsy and ponderous everything seems to look. An England player gets the ball, they look around, no-one is available, they look again (making shrugging gestures), turn back or sideways, look again, make a basic nothing pass.

The commentators called it in one move during the game where Kane had a cross field ball on early but instead of one touch and ping again he's looking, deciding, measuring like everything has to be just-so before the ball actually moves. By which time the opposition are back in shape and the impetus is gone.

Are the players being given such rigid instructions to play Embleton-ball they can't move it quicker or is this a symptom of poor tactics and preparation that the players simply don't know where their colleagues are going to be so nothing comes naturally?

Got away with it big time tonight but even the luck will run out eventually playing as bad as they did for 95 mins without a shot on target.

From the start, some really bad team selections in the stating line up. Late substitutions helped us scrape a win after playing in such a disjointed fashion throughout the game. Why keep playing Foden out of position on the left wing, he cannot beat his fullback on the outside and rarely if ever puts a decent cross over, he is far better suited playing in the central areas, a winger he aint !! Same old Southgate tactics, as soon as his team gets in front, drop deep and go on the defensive, leading to conceding control in the midfield and leaving Toney on his own up front thus putting a lot of pressure on our defence. Same plan he used in the 2020 final when we lost to Italy after being in control and scoring such an early goal.
Meanwhile playing Trippier at left back must surely be changed in the next match and his awful pass back lead to Guéhi getting an early yellow card so that he misses the next game. I thought Mainoo had a solid game and so did the energetic Eze when he came on and the same goes for Palmer who added some much needed flair to Englands forward play.

At least we had some moments to enjoy from this tournament. Southgate is clearly finished and that was a stinker of a performance, but some fun was had so not a total write off of a euros.

Quarter finals every tournament

I don't quite know how to word it but there seems to be something that in the media (and the public expectation ) constantly hypes up England as super special. Facts (in terms of winning World Cups and European championships) don't bear this out but the expectation still seems to be that 'Brittania rules the waves'. The reality is 'they don't'. Maybe more realism is needed ???
In reality: we don't have 'the best democracy in the world'. London is not 'the greatest city in the world'. The British Empire is long gone ....
Maybe time to just let the England team to be about football? Win some, lose some?

We've managed 12 shots on target in 4 games, we're one of the dullest teams to watch in the tournament. Whether the players are over rated over hyped or whatever is completely irrelevant, we're just not very enjoyable to watch.

The rest of the footballing world must be dreading us progressing through the tournament. Boring other teams off the park is a tactic, I suppose.

People using luck to explain us constantly getting through the to late late knock out stages. Weird people can’t enjoy the journey.

Very good contribution from Toney.

Credit to Slovakia, they went on the attack from the outset and made us play a bit. Imagine if they had sat back.

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:27 pm The thing with this England side in stark contrast to, say Germany is now clumsy and ponderous everything seems to look. An England player gets the ball, they look around, no-one is available, they look again (making shrugging gestures), turn back or sideways, look again, make a basic nothing pass.

The commentators called it in one move during the game where Kane had a cross field ball on early but instead of one touch and ping again he's looking, deciding, measuring like everything has to be just-so before the ball actually moves. By which time the opposition are back in shape and the impetus is gone.

Are the players being given such rigid instructions to play Embleton-ball they can't move it quicker or is this a symptom of poor tactics and preparation that the players simply don't know where their colleagues are going to be so nothing comes naturally?

Got away with it big time tonight but even the luck will run out eventually playing as bad as they did for 95 mins without a shot on target.

It's our middle of midfield that's the issue. They're not as technically gifted or as fluent on the ball as our competitors. And by middle of midfield, I guess I really mean Rice. Trent isn't a midfielder by trade and Mainoo is just a kid. We were a little bit more adventurous at the start of yesterday and that exposed the flaws in our back line and caused us to regularly get caught on the break.

Southgate is probably right - the only way we can be successful with this group of players is to play it safe and hope for a bit of magic from Kane or Bellingham.

E10EU wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:00 am I don't quite know how to word it but there seems to be something that in the media (and the public expectation ) constantly hypes up England as super special. Facts (in terms of winning World Cups and European championships) don't bear this out but the expectation still seems to be that 'Brittania rules the waves'. The reality is 'they don't'. Maybe more realism is needed ???
In reality: we don't have 'the best democracy in the world'. London is not 'the greatest city in the world'. The British Empire is long gone ....
Maybe time to just let the England team to be about football? Win some, lose some?

We arguably have the best 9 and 10 in the world right now. Saka and Foden ain't bad either (when on form). So I get the hype. It's just a shame about the rest of the team.

Hoover Attack wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:50 am

gshaw wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 8:27 pm The thing with this England side in stark contrast to, say Germany is now clumsy and ponderous everything seems to look. An England player gets the ball, they look around, no-one is available, they look again (making shrugging gestures), turn back or sideways, look again, make a basic nothing pass.

The commentators called it in one move during the game where Kane had a cross field ball on early but instead of one touch and ping again he's looking, deciding, measuring like everything has to be just-so before the ball actually moves. By which time the opposition are back in shape and the impetus is gone.

Are the players being given such rigid instructions to play Embleton-ball they can't move it quicker or is this a symptom of poor tactics and preparation that the players simply don't know where their colleagues are going to be so nothing comes naturally?

Got away with it big time tonight but even the luck will run out eventually playing as bad as they did for 95 mins without a shot on target.

It's our middle of midfield that's the issue. They're not as technically gifted or as fluent on the ball as our competitors. And by middle of midfield, I guess I really mean Rice. Trent isn't a midfielder by trade and Mainoo is just a kid. We were a little bit more adventurous at the start of yesterday and that exposed the flaws in our back line and caused us to regularly get caught on the break.

Southgate is probably right - the only way we can be successful with this group of players is to play it safe and hope for a bit of magic from Kane or Bellingham.

The idea that a midfield pairing of Mainoo and Rice hasn't got the skill or nous to control a game against Slovakia is nuts. And if they didn't have that skillset, then you'd try to play to our undoubted strengths, which is having a load of wingers and full backs capable of making runs in behind the defence, who would benefit from Kane dropping deep and creating space. But we don't do that either as we have Foden and Trippier providing zero width.

It's a tactical mess that seems to have only emerged this tournament. We dominated the ball against France at the last world cup with 2/3rds of the same midfield we have now, and the player that has been replaced is Henderson.

Rice hasn't. He's a great workhorse for Arsenal but it's Odegard who's their playmaker, the one that makes things happen. Mainoo might go on to have the nous but he hasn't yet. Understandably he doesn't look confident on the ball when receiving it deep, choosing to keep things simple. The only way I see to solve this is to bring Bellingham back in as an 8 and put one of the flair players in his role as the 10.

Slovakia lined up with a 4-4-2 and pressed our back 4 and Rice and Mainoo. There was a massive gap between their midfield and defence in which to find Bellingham but time and again the midfield failed to do so. (Bellinghams frustration at those behind him was visible).