Independent Leyton Orient Forum

I genuinely can’t remember a more depressing time for politics.

CEB wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:22 pm I genuinely can’t remember a more depressing time for politics.

1979-1990 .

Collective responsibility is still a thing

Message matters

Tarry is facing the re-selection his ilk bayed for, hilariously, after every one of his local parties voted for it.

Finally, he doesn't even live in the Borough he got parachuted into.

video is great

Not even got the balls to say it’s cos he stood on a picket line.

It's no biggie.

Sam Tarry is just setting out his stall in advance of the inevitable election defeat. He was fully aware of collective responsibility and that his actions would lead to his sacking. He's no virtuous martyr.

Starmer is also just as happy with how this plays out in the key marginal constituencies with swing voters. Trade Unions also do not need Westminster politicians.

The loony left completely lose the plot again, and never pass up an opportunity to make Labour infighting the headlines. That they're more animated by this than a Tory leadership candidate suggesting they'd make striking illegal shows how irrelevant they are.

Bloody loony left, causing all this infighting within Labour these past 7 years

7 years? They've been at it since 1985!

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:44 am 7 years? They've been at it since 1985!

I’m one of the youth that became engaged in 2015, I didn’t even do politics before then so can’t comment.

Same.

I do think it’s crazy, even if Tarry was attempting to get himself sacked for the optics, for Starmer to actually sack him, seems like Labour doing the classic thing of interrupting their enemy when they’re making a mistake.

Owen Jones really needs to have a word with himself though, especially the later tweet where he calls on people to tell Starmer what he is in the street

Lol, just watched the video, and I’m actually just about to cycle down to waitrose on my bike so I guess I’m one of the people Owen’s referring to anyway.

Audrey White told Starmer what's what a couple of days ago. She was 100% right, as was Owen Jones.
I never thought I'd live to see the day when a Labour leader was more concerned with courtng Daily Mail readers, than caring about the needs of working class people.
Starmer is a liar and a conman, and because of this he will never win an election.

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:05 am I do think it’s crazy, even if Tarry was attempting to get himself sacked for the optics, for Starmer to actually sack him, seems like Labour doing the classic thing of interrupting their enemy when they’re making a mistake.

As a front bencher, Tarry knew he had a responsibility to tow the party line. Even if he doesn't agree with it. Especially if he doesn't agree with it.

If he finds he simply cannot follow the party line, then the thing to do is to resign. To choose not to is to openly challenge the authority or the party leader. And in such a situation the leader must sack him or the fallout will be even worse.

Tarry chose to not resign, and instead force Starmer into that position. And he did it at a time when an election is looming on the horizon. Why would he do that?

A Labour led government under Starmer may well be marginally less sh*t than the current one. But after so many years of a Tory government, the left should be wanting to snap that up as there's little evidence they're going to get anything better.

The Unions are doing just fine without the like of Tarry. They're winning support and have skilled orators who can communicate effectively through the mainstream media.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:08 am Audrey White told Starmer what's what a couple of days ago. She was 100% right, as was Owen Jones.
I never thought I'd live to see the day when a Labour leader was more concerned with courtng Daily Mail readers, than caring about the needs of working class people.
Starmer is a liar and a conman, and because of this he will never win an election.

I don’t think Starmer should have sacked him.

I do think that it’s woefully naive to not understand that convincing people who voted for your opponents to instead vote for you, is a crucial part of becoming the party of government.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:27 am

CEB wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:05 am I do think it’s crazy, even if Tarry was attempting to get himself sacked for the optics, for Starmer to actually sack him, seems like Labour doing the classic thing of interrupting their enemy when they’re making a mistake.

As a front bencher, Tarry knew he had a responsibility to tow the party line. Even if he doesn't agree with it. Especially if he doesn't agree with it.

If he finds he simply cannot follow the party line, then the thing to do is to resign. To choose not to is to openly challenge the authority or the party leader. And in such a situation the leader must sack him or the fallout will be even worse.

Tarry chose to not resign, and instead force Starmer into that position. And he did it at a time when an election is looming on the horizon. Why would he do that?

A Labour led government under Starmer may well be marginally less sh*t than the current one. But after so many years of a Tory government, the left should be wanting to snap that up as there'slittle evidence they'regoing to get anything better.

The Unions are doing just fine without the like of Tarry. They're winning support and have skilled orators who can communicate effectively through the mainstream media.

OK, I pretty much agree with this.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:08 am Audrey White told Starmer what's what a couple of days ago. She was 100% right, as was Owen Jones.
I never thought I'd live to see the day when a Labour leader was more concerned with courtng Daily Mail readers, than caring about the needs of working class people.
Starmer is a liar and a conman, and because of this will win an election.

Corrected that for you.

Dunners wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:02 amSame.

Not the same. You commented.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:08 am Audrey White told Starmer what's what a couple of days ago. She was 100% right, as was Owen Jones.
I never thought I'd live to see the day when a Labour leader was more concerned with courtng Daily Mail readers, than caring about the needs of working class people.
Starmer is a liar and a conman, and because of this he will never win an election.

You not heard of Blair?

Whilst energy company profits are surging into the billions PER quarter and politicians are shrugging and telling us we’ll have to suck it up, is this gonna be a new age of just finally accepting it’s all about making big companies as much money as possibly and whoever suffers or dies is par of the course? Who exactly is gonna ‘stick up’ for the working person cos it ain’t the tories and it doesn’t seem to be Labour either?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:23 am Who exactly is gonna ‘stick up’ for the working person...?

Working people need to stick up for themselves. AKA trade Unions.

Well, yeah, but a lot of working class people are against unions and the inconvenience they bring to their lives. Is it just every person for themselves now?

How about the working class stick up for themselves as an option? Back in the day what we’re currently going through would have brought about huge demonstrations and/or marches in protest. Seems we’ve just given up.

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:41 am Well, yeah, but a lot of working class people are against unions and the inconvenience they bring to their lives.

Those people are what we call thickos. And there will always be thickos. So there's no point thinking about them.

Unless you rely on their votes in a FPTP electoral system, of course. Hence why Labour have little choice than to do what they're doing.