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You should check amnesty report of killed or injured in Palestine by Israel. Sorry can't share the page, Grim reading of figures, last year was the highest since 2005.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:04 pm91 children in Gaza killed in the last 48 hours. 50% of the population of Gaza are children.BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:54 pmNetanyahu must think all his birthdays have come at once. Now he has a mandate to go into Gaza with maximum force, kill thousands of people, mainly civilians in all probability and face no censure for his actions. He's been wanting to do this for ages.Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:45 pm Hamas does have considerable support amongst the people in Gaza. The people voted for them in 2006, despite Hamas making little secret of what they stood for.
I wouldn't consider Israel's response an "overreaction" as it is understandable (even if you believe it could prove to be even more destabilising in the longer-term). But it is an extreme reaction, that risks inflaming tensions across the wider region and bringing others nations and groups into the conflict. However, the Israeli government could face collapse if it does not respond in a manner that will satisfy their people.
Hamas, and its supporters amongst the people of Gaza, know they have little chance of defeating Israel on their own. And that's even with the considerable weapons and supplies that they have despite the blockade. But if they can provoke a response from other neighbouring countries, such as Lebanon, Jordon and Egypt, then that could change things considerably.
Judging by the public reactions from Turkey to Morocco and throughout many other Arab states, those countries governments will face considerable pressure to support the Palestinians. This may also be why the US has moved a Carrier Strike Force into the eastern Mediterranean, just to send a signal to those other countries.
The far right and fascists in the Israeli govt don't need an excuse. They were always going to carry out genocide. It was only ever a matter of when.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:04 pmYou should check amnesty report of killed or injured in Palestine by Israel. Sorry can't share the page, Grim reading of figures, last year was the highest since 2005.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:04 pm91 children in Gaza killed in the last 48 hours. 50% of the population of Gaza are children.
The far right and fascists in the Israeli govt don't need an excuse. They were always going to carry out genocide. It was only ever a matter of when.
Because if they agree to it then hide rockets and munitions in civilian locations anyway (as usual) they can get the PR bump from useful idiots for agreeing to it then also when Israel inevitably renege on the dealStillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:01 pm Why would Hama agree to that? If the purpose of the attacks was to provoke the reaction that is currently happening - and it seems a) it was entirely predictable and b) why else did Hamas attack if not to provoke the widespread bombing of civilians, then I can't see them agreeing to separate their men and materiel from the civ population.
Well, quite.StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:01 pm Why would Hama agree to that? If the purpose of the attacks was to provoke the reaction that is currently happening - and it seems a) it was entirely predictable and b) why else did Hamas attack if not to provoke the widespread bombing of civilians, then I can't see them agreeing to separate their men and materiel from the civ population.
Simplistic phrases are not required when Innocent life is taken anywhere. Do you Condem Israel Murdering Innocent civillians for years ?Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:13 pmTwo wrongs don’t make a right.Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:04 pmYou should check amnesty report of killed or injured in Palestine by Israel. Sorry can't share the page, Grim reading of figures, last year was the highest since 2005.Max B Gold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:04 pm
91 children in Gaza killed in the last 48 hours. 50% of the population of Gaza are children.
The far right and fascists in the Israeli govt don't need an excuse. They were always going to carry out genocide. It was only ever a matter of when.
I don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:53 pmSimplistic phrases are not required when Innocent life is taken anywhere. Do you Condem Israel Murdering Innocent civillians for years ?
Cutting off food, water and energy to 2.2m civilians isn't defending Israel. It is collective punishment which is a war crime.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pmI don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
Some absolute prize bollocks going on here. Another idiot treating this issue as something that started this weekend rather than an ongoing 75+ year war.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pmI don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
I Think you should check U.N Security Council Resolution 242 , before you talk of Unilateral rights of Nations or people. Land grabs are not instigated by Hamas.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pmI don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
Thanks, I’ll take a look.Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:24 pmI Think you should check U.N Security Council Resolution 242 , before you talk of Unilateral rights of Nations or people. Land grabs are not instigated by Hamas.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pmI don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
Joe315 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:24 pmI Think you should check U.N Security Council Resolution 242 , before you talk of Unilateral rights of Nations or people. Land grabs are not instigated by Hamas.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pmI don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
This a very good and very fair summary of whats going onAdmin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:23 pmSome absolute prize bollocks going on here. Another idiot treating this issue as something that started this weekend rather than 75+ year war.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pmI don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
You've trotted out the well worn line about Israel having the right to defend itself. Absolutely it does and Hamas deserve all the condemnation it gets for terrorist atrocities. The people of Palestine will suffer greatly for this particularly as Hamas is not supported by every Palestinian. And it is a tragedy for every innocent victim of the violence on either side.
But try to go further in your thinking and consider the "why and how". Do you think Israel has the right to contain Palestinians in what is described as the worlds largest open air prison (as described by David Cameron in 2013)? Does Israel have the right to run an apartheid state like it currently does (as described by Amnesty International)? Does Israel have the right to ethnically cleanse Palestinian lands and indiscriminately kill unarmed civilians and children? Because what's happened to Israeli citizens this weekend is an every day occurrence for Palestinians which happens with barely any condemnation or mention from Western governments or media.
Give that some thought and then consider why some Palestinians have turned to terrorism and resistance. Palestinians are denied basic human rights freedoms such as employment, health, sanitation, housing, power and light by Israel who with Egypt control every point of entry and exit. Nethanyahu's far right government want to incorporate Gaza into Israel and ethnically cleanse it. Hamas's actions are deplorable. But so is Israel's continued treatment of 2M people they consider to be sub-human. Demonstrated just today by their decision to cut off power and water to those same people - these are war crimes being committed in front of you and your government and media are happy to watch it happen and aggressively bark at anyone prepared to question it.
To be fair, you did call him a knobhead and a rabid Zionist without any evidence from his post.BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:10 amHehe - I seem to have unwittingly got under your skin Frankie. As you appear to be a rabid Zionist that’s fine with me.FrankOFile wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:14 amBecause he does not condemn Hamas. He would rather trot out trite whataboutery instead, much like Bonio on here.
Just to make it clear I'm not interested in playing Terrorist Top Trumps. There's blood on both side's hands. And as always in warfare, it's mainly the blood of innocent people just trying to go about their lives.ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:09 pmThis a very good and very fair summary of whats going onAdmin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:23 pmSome absolute prize bollocks going on here. Another idiot treating this issue as something that started this weekend rather than 75+ year war.Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:43 pm
I don’t condem or condemn anyone without known the full facts of a particular matter. I doubt if anyone does on this board , all depends what lean on the situation they have. What I do know is that people and Governments have a sovereign right to defend their country and people and Israel have the right to here. This war has been instigated by Hamas and sadly more people will be killed on both sides. I find this personally extremely sad .
You've trotted out the well worn line about Israel having the right to defend itself. Absolutely it does and Hamas deserve all the condemnation it gets for terrorist atrocities. The people of Palestine will suffer greatly for this particularly as Hamas is not supported by every Palestinian. And it is a tragedy for every innocent victim of the violence on either side.
But try to go further in your thinking and consider the "why and how". Do you think Israel has the right to contain Palestinians in what is described as the worlds largest open air prison (as described by David Cameron in 2013)? Does Israel have the right to run an apartheid state like it currently does (as described by Amnesty International)? Does Israel have the right to ethnically cleanse Palestinian lands and indiscriminately kill unarmed civilians and children? Because what's happened to Israeli citizens this weekend is an every day occurrence for Palestinians which happens with barely any condemnation or mention from Western governments or media.
Give that some thought and then consider why some Palestinians have turned to terrorism and resistance. Palestinians are denied basic human rights freedoms such as employment, health, sanitation, housing, power and light by Israel who with Egypt control every point of entry and exit. Nethanyahu's far right government want to incorporate Gaza into Israel and ethnically cleanse it. Hamas's actions are deplorable. But so is Israel's continued treatment of 2M people they consider to be sub-human. Demonstrated just today by their decision to cut off power and water to those same people - these are war crimes being committed in front of you and your government and media are happy to watch it happen and aggressively bark at anyone prepared to question it.
People come up with stuff showing they have no idea of how we got here.
To those who call Hamas terrorists....how do you think Israel came into being. Have a little look at Irgun & Lehi, two of the worst terrorist organisations ever to have existed.
Those two Jewish terrorist groups killed and maimed more people than Hamas have in half the time.
Just do some research, and learn some facts
Well done Admin
Well he was so desperate to have a pop that he dug up a 5 month old post - one where I’d apologised for getting a previous post wrong. I’ll be happy to retract my statement that he’s a rabid Zionist if he simply condemns the State of Israel’s violence against the Palestinian people, their illegal annexation of Palestinian land and the murder of countless Palestinian civilians (many of them just children).ChorizO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:20 pmTo be fair, you did call him a knobhead and a rabid Zionist without any evidence from his post.BoniO wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:10 amHehe - I seem to have unwittingly got under your skin Frankie. As you appear to be a rabid Zionist that’s fine with me.FrankOFile wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:14 am
Because he does not condemn Hamas. He would rather trot out trite whataboutery instead, much like Bonio on here.
Perhaps its best to rethink your posts.
Dont most of the civilised world consider Hamas a terrorist organisation?ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:09 pm
This a very good and very fair summary of whats going on
People come up with stuff showing they have no idea of how we got here.
To those who call Hamas terrorists....how do you think Israel came into being. Have a little look at Irgun & Lehi, two of the worst terrorist organisations ever to have existed.
Those two Jewish terrorist groups killed and maimed more people than Hamas have in half the time.
Just do some research, and learn some facts
Well done Admin
Be careful what you read all.Cyabra, which has monitored US election disinformation and tracked bot accounts on Twitter historically, found that approximately 30,000 fake accounts have been spreading pro-Hamas disinformation
Says a lot.Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to visit Moscow, Russian news media quoted the Palestinian envoy to Moscow as saying late on Monday.