Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:14 am

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:11 am Shop/transport workers don't want the grief and if all you have to do when challenged is say "I'm exempt" then enforcement becomes impossible

So, as per other Countries, you make exempt people carry a card to prove this. Nothing impossible about enforcing rules, only needs a will to do so.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:08 am

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:00 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:58 am
Which is why the RULES need enforcing.

Who by?

Police, council, security guards, I don't care.

Any shop could say no mask no entry/service but they only care about their bottom line.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:24 am

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:41 am
Will do if you provide the evidence that raves and BLM marches are to blame. I've offered you reasons which logically make sense as to why infection rates might rise. You've said that BLM marches which mainly happened 2/3 months ago are to blame. I know which one of us looks silly.

I get it, you have a dogma about certain groups of people. It's fine. Stop passing it off as fact though.

What have I passed off as fact? I clearly said above "I think..." and "it's a matter of opinion". In the absence of hard evidence, much of this is opinion.

I don't actually believe the BLM marches anything to do with the current rise (I knew it would be picked up and focused on though). I do believe, as I said, that a significant factor is the behaviour of certain groups of mainly younger people (ie < 40) and not specifically to do with people going back to work or restaurants opening. Pubs perhaps, if they don't follow distancing guidelines and encourage close contact but the ones I've been to seem to be acting in a responsible way, though I've heard of others that are not.

It's strange that your opinions (as you've presented no evidence) "logically make sense"- but mine are silly.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:31 am Bizarre opinion. Rules need enforcement if people don't obey them, which they don't.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:38 am It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:48 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:41 am

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:37 am

Oh to be so politically correct all the time

Some could have taken it from here, infected people out there, who then brought it back and infected people here.
Either way it would seem that more people have come back with it than went out with it hence the rise in cases here.

Those Islands were pretty much free of it, like we were before our lockdown was ended .
We started socialising pubs gatherings etc of course its more likely it came from tourists visiting them

All of their tourists came from the UK then?

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:17 pm
All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:17 pm
All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:22 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:38 am It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

Almost as interesting how some people accuse those who demonstrate the governments pathetic handling of lockdown rules, and then propose viable solutions, as becoming right wing authoritarian types.

PS - when I said interesting, I meant really stupid.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:17 pm
All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:06 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:22 pm

Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:38 am It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

Almost as interesting how some people accuse those who demonstrate the governments pathetic handling of lockdown rules, and then propose viable solutions, as becoming right wing authoritarian types.

PS - when I said interesting, I meant really stupid.

I know you're butt hurt but you literally said Boris should declare a state of emergency so he could bypass parliament on this thread and now you're advocating French style policing which is far more authoritarian than UK tactics of explain, encourage, engage

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:17 pm
All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:17 pm
All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

spen666 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:19 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:31 am Bizarre opinion. Rules need enforcement if people don't obey them, which they don't.

So blame the people not obeying the rules. They are the cause of the problem

Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:29 pm Is anyone on here abiding by the government rules to the letter of the law? It'd mean you haven't been round to someone else's house and had a third household present, it would mean you haven't met more than 6 people outside at any point in the last 3 months. The inconsistency of saying we want people to return to normal economic life but not normal social life is so obviously absurd.

There's a lot of moralising about this, but everyone is taking calculated risks all the time, seemingly in every country judging by the resurgence being experienced across countries that had 'beaten' the virus. What was needed and has always been needed is efficient testing and then good contact tracing. We have neither.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:11 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:17 pm
All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

24th of July article .

September post by FaLDo

" 500 raves in the last month ".

Anyone care to explain it to him ?

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:12 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:11 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

24th of July article .

September post by FaLDo

" 500 raves in the last month ".

Anyone care to explain it to him ?

I was simply pointing out that there had been more than 2 or 3 illegal raves as that's all that Apple Wumble had heard of and he thinks it's just some young people dancing in a field in Wales.

I've googled some other more recent ones for you.

House parties and raves blamed on spike for coronavirus infections in Leeds
https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/05/house-pa ... -13227841/

Police crack down on illegal raves ahead of introduction of £10k fine
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... f-10k-fine

A more general one, admittedly a bit older:

Coronavirus: Inside the secret Covid rave scene


FWIW I'm not specifically picking on illegal raves and parties, or young people, and I don't actually care much whether they take place except when they impact on local communities and require resources like the police and ambulances to deal with. I think young people should be out enjoying themselves and I think the risk to them from covid is generally fairly minimal.

With hindsight I regret even mentioning them and BLM - I should have realised it would be like a red rag to a bull. It has detracted from the point I was trying to make which was that I don't believe the current significant rise in infections mainly in young people is due to people going back to work or people travelling on trains or restaurants/pubs opening (except where they do not follow guidelines/recommendations).

Mick McQuaid wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:27 pm .. . I know some people get their blue rinse in a tizz over the very idea or a rave (which now seems to be defined by plod as 10 people and an ipod). ....