Independent Leyton Orient Forum

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 8:37 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 5:26 pm Agreed, Israel is neither a murderous nor genocidal fascist state.

You really are sick in the head if you believe that pal.

You need professional help

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon May 05, 2025 9:17 pm With the advent of VE Day, I’ve watched some of the programmes looking back at WW2. It’s been of interest to me to see some of the very old veterans relating stories about their experiences. The references to the camps and the treatment of the Jews remain as harrowing and disturbing as ever. It’s difficult to imagine the horrors that these poor souls experienced.

For me, this makes what is happening right now, in Gaza, even more inexplicable. Why would a State, formed after WW2, by Jews escaping from persecution in Europe evolve into such an evil, murderous bunch of thugs. It’s absolutely right to remember and condemn the actions of the Nazis during WW2 but at the same time, how can anyone not also condemn the State of Israel for crimes against humanity for their actions in Gaza.

Probably made them a bit defensive. And then one day they get attacked with over a thousand killed and others kidnapped. They might be thinking 'never again'.

The gaza civilians are victims of Hamas too and I reckon once they are gone long term peace may be possible.

Nurofen wrote: ↑Tue May 06, 2025 4:27 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 8:37 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 5:26 pm Agreed, Israel is neither a murderous nor genocidal fascist state.

You really are sick in the head if you believe that pal.

You need professional help

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue May 06, 2025 4:55 pm

BoniO wrote: ↑Mon May 05, 2025 9:17 pm With the advent of VE Day, I’ve watched some of the programmes looking back at WW2. It’s been of interest to me to see some of the very old veterans relating stories about their experiences. The references to the camps and the treatment of the Jews remain as harrowing and disturbing as ever. It’s difficult to imagine the horrors that these poor souls experienced.

For me, this makes what is happening right now, in Gaza, even more inexplicable. Why would a State, formed after WW2, by Jews escaping from persecution in Europe evolve into such an evil, murderous bunch of thugs. It’s absolutely right to remember and condemn the actions of the Nazis during WW2 but at the same time, how can anyone not also condemn the State of Israel for crimes against humanity for their actions in Gaza.

Probably made them a bit defensive. And then one day they get attacked with over a thousand killed and others kidnapped. They might be thinking 'never again'.

The gaza civilians are victims of Hamas too and I reckon once they are gone long term peace may be possible.

I doubt it. After Gaza has been stolen there's still plenty of other Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian lands to steal.

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 05, 2025 9:40 pm Unfortunately, as a Jew, it’s all about religious indoctrination. Because the holocaust happened it embeds their view even more that Israel is promised and anyone encroaching on that has to be removed

So, just to understand the point you're making, the actions of Israel today in Gaza are brought about largely by religious indoctrination, and, by implication, anyone who is a "secular" Jew is not supportive of the current actions (presumably you fall into that category)?

Not only that, but because of the holocaust, where at least 6 millions Jews were murdered in the most horrific way and countless millions of others were displaced, imprisoned in concentration camps in unimaginable circumstances, or, if they were lucky, forced or managed to emigrate, etc etc, Jews who then want a safe place to live after WWII in a land which they have more than just a passing claim to, have no right to protect that land when it comes under attack from a murderous bunch of terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah?

Proper mental if that's an accurate summary of your position, but please correct me if I'm wrong and do clarify the point you were trying to make about the role the holocaust plays in the current conflict.

Not even hiding it now and yet some will still deny
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ar-in-gaza

faldO wrote: ↑Tue May 06, 2025 7:40 pm

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Mon May 05, 2025 9:40 pm Unfortunately, as a Jew, it’s all about religious indoctrination. Because the holocaust happened it embeds their view even more that Israel is promised and anyone encroaching on that has to be removed

So, just to understand the point you're making, the actions of Israel today in Gaza are brought about largely by religious indoctrination, and, by implication, anyone who is a "secular" Jew is not supportive of the current actions (presumably you fall into that category)?

Not only that, but because of the holocaust, where at least 6 millions Jews were murdered in the most horrific way and countless millions of others were displaced, imprisoned in concentration camps in unimaginable circumstances, or, if they were lucky, forced or managed to emigrate, etc etc, Jews who then want a safe place to live after WWII in a land which they have more than just a passing claim to, have no right to protect that land when it comes under attack from a murderous bunch of terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah?

Proper mental if that's an accurate summary of your position, but please correct me if I'm wrong and do clarify the point you were trying to make about the role the holocaust plays in the current conflict.

Yeah, you are wrong and I think you probably know that.

But just to clarify. I didn’t say and don’t think that any secular Jews aren’t supportive. Some aren’t and a lot are. Personally I don’t think it makes a difference to what’s right and wrong. Unless the support of say, Christians, of the Nazis make their heinous crimes more justified?

Again, didn’t say they have no right to protect their land when it comes under attack. I think they do, especially against terrorists. I also think it’s fair that you’d feel that right should extend to the Palestinians, who have much more than a passing claim to that land, when they come under attack from a murderous bunch of terrorists. Wouldn’t you agree?

Look, let’s stop with the points scoring because I’m genuinely interested in the opposing view here. What I see on the news turns my stomach every day and I’m at a loss how it continues to get worse and is allowed to get worse. I realise some people feel it’s justified but I can’t get my head around it. Do you see any issue with what Israel is doing?

Not endorsing the current tactics, but how can Hamas be defeated? Can't have a terrorist group in charge of an area and expect peace.

I honestly dont know but ethnic clensing of an entire population doesn’t seem like the one

Long slender neck wrote: ↑Tue May 06, 2025 9:41 pm Not endorsing the current tactics, but how can Hamas be defeated? Can't have a terrorist group in charge of an area and expect peace.

It's not Hamas they are trying to defeat. It's the genocide of a nation to take the land of the Palestinians. That's the end goal of Zionism.

No surprises here. What scum these Israeli Government Ministers are.

Note - stating that they'd still want to take over the land by military force even if the hostages were released.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/g ... 7969&ei=10

It would be scandalous if Israel won the Eurovision Song Contest and we all should refuse to pay our television licence if they do.

Yep I’ll use a song contest, the huge loss of life and a geo political crisis as an excuse not to pay my bills.

By allowing Israel to take part in Eurovision it's so easy to see how the Nazis came to power.

It's strange that after such a great week for the mighty O's ,discussing Israel on the Message Board is happening.
It is called Eurovision SONG Contest, so if Israel happen to have the best song and the best singer( a survivor of the Nova Dance Festival where hundreds of Israelis were murdered ) why shouldn't they win ?
Unlikely I know

Nurofen wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 7:57 am By allowing Israel to take part in Eurovision it's so easy to see how the Nazis came to power.

Comparing the Nazis and Israel. History is not your strongest suit, is it?

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 8:23 am

Nurofen wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 7:57 am By allowing Israel to take part in Eurovision it's so easy to see how the Nazis came to power.

Comparing the Nazis and Israel. History is not your strongest suit, is it?

We should write a letters of complaint to the BBC or better still, watch ITV while the Eurovision Song contest is on

Whilst I’m out, I’ll put my multiple TVs and devices onto the BBC in support of these wonderful musicians. Also going to get my AI bot to write thousands of letters of gratitude to the BBC for such an enjoyable production. Struggling with the Nazi implications of this support.

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 8:23 am

Nurofen wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 7:57 am By allowing Israel to take part in Eurovision it's so easy to see how the Nazis came to power.

Comparing the Nazis and Israel. History is not your strongest suit, is it?

The collapse of the ceasefire on March 18th has had a catastrophic impact on children and families throughout Gaza and the wider State of Palestine. The devastation on children is profound. With aid being denied, Gaza is now on the brink of famine. Time is running out. The blockade on aid must be removed immediately.

https://www.unicef.org.uk/donate/childr ... is-appeal/

Chicken Dhansak wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 8:23 am

Nurofen wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 7:57 am By allowing Israel to take part in Eurovision it's so easy to see how the Nazis came to power.

Comparing the Nazis and Israel. History is not your strongest suit, is it?

War crimes and genocide. They both did it.