Migrants crossing the channel

[Beradogs]

Or why don’t they stay in France? They can’t all have family here. Actually, thinking about it. They probably could.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Over thirty dead today trying to make the crossing, unfortunately it might become more regular as the numbers crossing keep increasing and the weather worsens

What I don't understand is, if these people are allegedly paying thousands for the benefit of being smuggled. Why don't they just pay for the tourist visa and flights and then claim asylum when they rock up at Heathrow?

Exactly, all they need to do is pop down to the Thomas Cook on Kandahar High Street and fill in a few forms.

[Long slender neck]

Could just use their iphones to book it online

[Currywurst and Chips]

Over thirty dead today trying to make the crossing, unfortunately it might become more regular as the numbers crossing keep increasing and the weather worsens

What I don't understand is, if these people are allegedly paying thousands for the benefit of being smuggled. Why don't they just pay for the tourist visa and flights and then claim asylum when they rock up at Heathrow?

Exactly, all they need to do is pop down to the Thomas Cook on Kandahar High Street and fill in a few forms.

I'm not sure what your point is? Or if you even have one to be honest

Afghans make up a small minority of those making the journey

[Real Al]

Over thirty dead today trying to make the crossing, unfortunately it might become more regular as the numbers crossing keep increasing and the weather worsens

What I don't understand is, if these people are allegedly paying thousands for the benefit of being smuggled. Why don't they just pay for the tourist visa and flights and then claim asylum when they rock up at Heathrow?

I couldn't find much about entry requirements for Sudanese people, for instance. However these are the requirements or UAE citizens, who I imagine find it relatively easy to get a visa.

UK Visa Requirements for UAE Citizens
You need a passport which should be valid for at least 6 months after your planned return from the UK.
Your passport should have a minimum of 3 blank pages for stamping.
You’ll need a passport-size photo taken on a white background. Be sure your face is not covered.
Provide proof of your residency status in the UAE. If you’re employed in the UAE, get a letter from your employer stating the details of your employment, role, and income and so on. If you’re a resident, then your UAE passport is evidence enough.
Provide your confirmed travel itinerary including flight details, dates of arrival and departure and other details along with your UK visa application Dubai.
Be ready to show a letter of invitation from your UK sponsors indicating their residential or immigration status in the UK.
Provide evidence of your sponsor’s current employment or status as a student, whatever the case may be.
Carry your salary payslips and bank statements for three months
Provide income tax statements for 2 years as proof of your financial viability.
Carry proofs of your education, in support of qualifications you’ve mentioned in the application form.
Provide evidence of the ability to meet your trip’s costs, as you’ve indicated in the application form. Provide bank statements of the person paying for the trip.
If you have a property in the UAE, then provide property documents such as deeds, mortgage statements, accountant’s letters or tenancy agreements.
Evidence of accommodation booking in the UK; this can be a letter from a resident stating you’re staying with them, or hotel booking confirmations.
If you’re married, then do attach your marriage certificate or civil partnership certificate or divorce certificate or death certificate as the situation warrants.
Provide evidence of family members remaining in the UAE while you travel to the UK. You can provide school reports for kids who are studying still or health reports for senior citizens who’ll remain behind while you travel.

Yeah, no problem for an Iranian dissident to meet those requirements

[Long slender neck]

Don't think you need a visa to claim asylum.

[Long slender neck]

The French have a lot to answer for.

[ComeOnYouOs]

The French have a lot to answer for.

So have the British. These refugees are fleeing war, and we are very involved in the conditions that made the war. Many of the bullets and bombs are made in Britain.

[Long slender neck]

You don't need to cross an entire continent to flee a war. The French are allowing these traffickers to do what they like.

[ComeOnYouOs]

You don't need to cross an entire continent to flee a war. The French are allowing these traffickers to do what they like.

Blame the foreigners. It's nothing at all to do with this country of course

[Long slender neck]

Didn't 9/11 make us do the wars? So who started it really?

[Currywurst and Chips]

Over thirty dead today trying to make the crossing, unfortunately it might become more regular as the numbers crossing keep increasing and the weather worsens

What I don't understand is, if these people are allegedly paying thousands for the benefit of being smuggled. Why don't they just pay for the tourist visa and flights and then claim asylum when they rock up at Heathrow?

I couldn't find much about entry requirements for Sudanese people, for instance. However these are the requirements or UAE citizens, who I imagine find it relatively easy to get a visa.

UK Visa Requirements for UAE Citizens
You need a passport which should be valid for at least 6 months after your planned return from the UK.
Your passport should have a minimum of 3 blank pages for stamping.
You’ll need a passport-size photo taken on a white background. Be sure your face is not covered.
Provide proof of your residency status in the UAE. If you’re employed in the UAE, get a letter from your employer stating the details of your employment, role, and income and so on. If you’re a resident, then your UAE passport is evidence enough.
Provide your confirmed travel itinerary including flight details, dates of arrival and departure and other details along with your UK visa application Dubai.
Be ready to show a letter of invitation from your UK sponsors indicating their residential or immigration status in the UK.
Provide evidence of your sponsor’s current employment or status as a student, whatever the case may be.
Carry your salary payslips and bank statements for three months
Provide income tax statements for 2 years as proof of your financial viability.
Carry proofs of your education, in support of qualifications you’ve mentioned in the application form.
Provide evidence of the ability to meet your trip’s costs, as you’ve indicated in the application form. Provide bank statements of the person paying for the trip.
If you have a property in the UAE, then provide property documents such as deeds, mortgage statements, accountant’s letters or tenancy agreements.
Evidence of accommodation booking in the UK; this can be a letter from a resident stating you’re staying with them, or hotel booking confirmations.
If you’re married, then do attach your marriage certificate or civil partnership certificate or divorce certificate or death certificate as the situation warrants.
Provide evidence of family members remaining in the UAE while you travel to the UK. You can provide school reports for kids who are studying still or health reports for senior citizens who’ll remain behind while you travel.

Yeah, no problem for an Iranian dissident to meet those requirements

To get a tourist visa from the UAE you require a visa waiver that only requires your passport/flight/hotel details.

In short, the above is complete bollocks

[E10EU]

A few facts:
1) People have the right to seek asylum in another country.
2) International laws to not stipulate where asylum has be sought.
3) EU countries made the Dublin agreement whereby asylum should be sought in the first EU country entered.
4) As the UK has chosen to no longer be part of the EU, the Dublin agreement does not apply to those who wish to seek asylum here.
5) EU countries do not have the right or duty to prevent people leaving their shores to seek asylum or residence elsewhere.

All those who voted for Brexit because they hate immigrants, should look at 3) above. In their ignorance they scored an own goal.

As for trying to act all high & mighty by blaming the people smugglers: they would not have customers if this country had a rational and humane approach to the fact that need for asylum (a safe country) has always existed.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Didn't 9/11 make us do the wars? So who started it really?

Do you remember the other day when you were going to start doing proper modding and stop being a willy?

[Long slender neck]

A few facts:
1) People have the right to seek asylum in another country.
2) International laws to not stipulate where asylum has be sought.
3) EU countries made the Dublin agreement whereby asylum should be sought in the first EU country entered.
4) As the UK has chosen to no longer be part of the EU, the Dublin agreement does not apply to those who wish to seek asylum here.
5) EU countries do not have the right or duty to prevent people leaving their shores to seek asylum or residence elsewhere.

All those who voted for Brexit because they hate immigrants, should look at 3) above. In their ignorance they scored an own goal.

As for trying to act all high & mighty by blaming the people smugglers: they would not have customers if this country had a rational and humane approach to the fact that need for asylum (a safe country) has always existed.

Wasn't Dublin rarely enforced though? As this is a problem that has existed for some time now. Asylum law obviously needs reform.

Pretty sure allowing people smuggling from your coasts in dangerously crowded and unsuitable boats is deeply irresponsible and probably against some sort of law. Of course France aren't bothered though, they don't want more camps springing up.

[E10EU]

Pretty sure allowing people smuggling from your coasts in dangerously crowded and unsuitable boats is deeply irresponsible and probably against some sort of law. Of course France aren't bothered though, they don't want more camps springing up.

I agree that the smugglers are irresponsible and don't care about lives/ deaths as it's highly profitable for them.
However, they are not the bodies who are on the boats!
This government is obsessed with attacking those who are on the dinghies, to the point of even contemplating methods for generating waves that would put those dinghies in peril! Farage has made it his mission to rubbish the RNLI for saving lives at sea. Seems that he isn't bothered about people dying while trying to cross the channel.

I repeat: France has no legal right or duty to stop people from getting into a dinghy to leave their shores.
As for the camps on their territory: I guess they would prefer those camps not to be there but this problem is not caused by France.

It all seems to come back to this country's obsessive hatred of 'immigrants' ... unless they are Nobel prize winners or similar. www.newscientist.com/article/2298455-uk ... lications/

[Mick McQuaid]

When it's just one or two that drown we should be pushing them back, not encouraging them by launching a lifeboat for a sinking ship. When it's just an occasional death they clearly aren't desperate, they're economic migrants, illegals and criminals but when nearly 30 die its shocking and appalling.

[Beradogs]

This subject needs people to bend a little and as per usual in something as emotive as this, that is impossible. The right need to understand that according to latest figures, 70% are genuine refugees. We have also spent the last half century causing trouble in these places and now don’t like the consequences. The liberals will never give an answer for how many is too many. It goes against there virtual signalling DNA. Is 10 million over the next few years and once global warming starts causing a mass displacement of people enough. 20m? Those numbers may sound fanciful but are entirely possible. If there is no number that is too high what does that mean for our current way of life. Not really sure what the answer is but it’s pretty certain that this is only going to get worse. As well as migrants fleeing persecution, we also have the mass lifting of hundreds of millions of people into middle class in places like China/India. They will rather fancy Europe as well.

[Long slender neck]

I've decided to just re-read this thread rather than go over the same old arguments, what a time saver!

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

This subject needs people to bend a little and as per usual in something as emotive as this, that is impossible. The right need to understand that according to latest figures, 70% are genuine refugees. We have also spent the last half century causing trouble in these places and now don’t like the consequences. The liberals will never give an answer for how many is too many. It goes against there virtual signalling DNA. Is 10 million over the next few years and once global warming starts causing a mass displacement of people enough. 20m? Those numbers may sound fanciful but are entirely possible. If there is no number that is too high what does that mean for our current way of life. Not really sure what the answer is but it’s pretty certain that this is only going to get worse. As well as migrants fleeing persecution, we also have the mass lifting of hundreds of millions of people into middle class in places like China/India. They will rather fancy Europe as well.

Of course we can’t take in 10 million or 20 million refugees.

Good luck getting someone from the right to accept that 1) the majority of refugees are genuinely seeking refuge and 2) our foreign policy has helped f*** over most of the places they’re fleeing.

[Long slender neck]

Bera- where has your '70% are genuine refugees' figure come from?

[Dunners]

This was inevitable. And it will become increasingly normalised.

We're nowhere near peak levels of migration as people seek to escape a miserable existence as states and regions across the globe begin to collapse. There are already countless deaths in the Mediterranean and the Atlantic, the Channel will just become another watery mass grave.

The majority of people trying to migrate at present are from the middle-east. But next year will see the number of people from the Sahel region of Africa increase, as that area is going to sh*t. And that's before we consider the increasing threat of instability and conflict in the Balkans and Eastern Europe.

Yes, western nations' foreign policies have played a part. But it has also put a blanket over a lot of potential flare-ups and conflicts throughout the world. The blanket has lifted. We'll now see whether or not our foreign policy, for all it's many many faults, was actually a Net force for good in the world or not.

This is what the post-World Order and Sykes-Picot era looks like. Western nations are still going through the motions of doing the whole liberal hand-wringing thing. But the fences are going up, border forces are toughening up, and public attitudes are recalibrating.

[Story of O]

A few facts:
1) People have the right to seek asylum in another country.
2) International laws to not stipulate where asylum has be sought.
3) EU countries made the Dublin agreement whereby asylum should be sought in the first EU country entered.
4) As the UK has chosen to no longer be part of the EU, the Dublin agreement does not apply to those who wish to seek asylum here.
5) EU countries do not have the right or duty to prevent people leaving their shores to seek asylum or residence elsewhere.

All those who voted for Brexit because they hate immigrants, should look at 3) above. In their ignorance they scored an own goal.

As for trying to act all high & mighty by blaming the people smugglers: they would not have customers if this country had a rational and humane approach to the fact that need for asylum (a safe country) has always existed.

On point 3, surely if they enter an EU country on their way to UK then that is where they should stay. The fact that they want to come here should not matter

[E10EU]

A few facts:
1) People have the right to seek asylum in another country.
2) International laws to not stipulate where asylum has be sought.
3) EU countries made the Dublin agreement whereby asylum should be sought in the first EU country entered.
4) As the UK has chosen to no longer be part of the EU, the Dublin agreement does not apply to those who wish to seek asylum here.
5) EU countries do not have the right or duty to prevent people leaving their shores to seek asylum or residence elsewhere.

All those who voted for Brexit because they hate immigrants, should look at 3) above. In their ignorance they scored an own goal.

As for trying to act all high & mighty by blaming the people smugglers: they would not have customers if this country had a rational and humane approach to the fact that need for asylum (a safe country) has always existed.

On point 3, surely if they enter an EU country on their way to UK then that is where they should stay. The fact that they want to come here should not matter

I refer you to point 2) of my post.

[Story of O]

So 3 was never legal?