Independent Leyton Orient Forum

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:04 am

E10EU wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:40 am

George wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:16 pm

That’s probably a good reason for not comparing countries without all the facts. Better to stick to European countries.
I suspect that when this ends , and all the factors are taken into account, all of Europe will be equally as bad.

The numbers to compare are deaths per 100000 and the Brits are flying high on this.

As for the glorious vaccine provision to outdo the EU: the UK government bought them before they had passed all the customary safety checks and our government indemnified the manufacturers against any adverse consequences! Yes, in order to score political points against the EU (and in support of Brexit) this government was willing to risk people suffering serious adverse consequences.

Remember thalidomide?
Should a responsible government really take such risks on possible detrimental consequences just to manipulate the public perception?

Deaths per 100000 don’t tell the true story though do they. Tuffers doesn’t get it. If 100000 live in the whole of France and 100000 live on the Isle of White , where do you think the death rate will be higher. There would be virtually no deaths in France , but huge numbers on the Island.

Comparing the whole of France against the whole of the isle of wight
Surely compare the Isle of wight to Corsica , you will find the french island
Shows just how badly the virus has been played in differing places .
*** *** *** ****
The NHS's "insufficient" critical care capacity has been laid bare
by the pandemic, with the UK having one of the lowest number
of beds per head in Europe, NHS Providers has said


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56234898

I absolutely agree that the NHS , as good as it is , can’t cope with pandemics. But you can’t have a larger NHS just in case we have a once in a lifetime occurrence such as this.
And as I have said before , the NHS isn’t of sufficient capacity to cope with 67 million people. We have too many people in the Uk and not a undersized NHS.

I see you side stepped the Corsica & I.O.W
Comparison which is understandable as it
Dismantles your previous nonsense with
regards to France !

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:55 pm I see you side stepped the Corsica & I.O.W
Comparison which is understandable as it
Dismantles your previous nonsense with
regards to France !

Not sure Corsica has any bearing on what I am saying. I simply said that you cannot easily compare country to country without taking into account all of the sub factors that each individual country will have.
We have 67 million people in a country half the size of France or Spain , we have a higher age expectancy than both , we have the highest obesity rates in Europe. On that basis alone we should expect more deaths.
The NHS cannot lay empty and with staff having nothing to do just in case once every 50 years we have a pandemic.

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:38 pm I absolutely agree that the NHS , as good as it is , can’t cope with pandemics. But you can’t have a larger NHS just in case we have a once in a lifetime occurrence such as this.
And as I have said before , the NHS isn’t of sufficient capacity to cope with 67 million people. We have too many people in the Uk and not a undersized NHS.

You could have a plan in place for when a forseeable pandemic does happen. That would be a start.

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:15 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:55 pm I see you side stepped the Corsica & I.O.W
Comparison which is understandable as it
Dismantles your previous nonsense with
regards to France !

Not sure Corsica has any bearing on what I am saying. I simply said that you cannot easily compare country to country without taking into account all of the sub factors that each individual country will have.
We have 67 million people in a country half the size of France or Spain , we have a higher age expectancy than both , we have the highest obesity rates in Europe. On that basis alone we should expect more deaths.
The NHS cannot lay empty and with staff having nothing to do just in case once every 50 years we have a pandemic.

It wouldn't be laying around "empty". It would be performing its tasks, just as it is now, but we (the patients) wouldn't have to wait months and years for our treatment.

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:15 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:55 pm I see you side stepped the Corsica & I.O.W
Comparison which is understandable as it
Dismantles your previous nonsense with
regards to France !

Not sure Corsica has any bearing on what I am saying. I simply said that you cannot easily compare country to country without taking into account all of the sub factors that each individual country will have.
We have 67 million people in a country half the size of France or Spain , we have a higher age expectancy than both , we have the highest obesity rates in Europe. On that basis alone we should expect more deaths.
The NHS cannot lay empty and with staff having nothing to do just in case once every 50 years we have a pandemic.

Poppycock .

Fat shaming now
This alais is a Joke !

Shouldv've just blagged the numbers like every other country

Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:37 pm Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

It is a myth that the NHS is "clogged up".

It is not a myth that you are an IMBECILE.

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:18 pm

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:38 pm I absolutely agree that the NHS , as good as it is , can’t cope with pandemics. But you can’t have a larger NHS just in case we have a once in a lifetime occurrence such as this.
And as I have said before , the NHS isn’t of sufficient capacity to cope with 67 million people. We have too many people in the Uk and not a undersized NHS.

You could have a plan in place for when a forseeable pandemic does happen. That would be a start.

You'll be surprised to know that there is one. One small problem is that the Tories forgot to put in action the requirements for stocking up on PPE and certain other actions that came out of the last "readiness" review. Quelle surprise!

BoniO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:23 pm

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:18 pm

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:38 pm I absolutely agree that the NHS , as good as it is , can’t cope with pandemics. But you can’t have a larger NHS just in case we have a once in a lifetime occurrence such as this.
And as I have said before , the NHS isn’t of sufficient capacity to cope with 67 million people. We have too many people in the Uk and not a undersized NHS.

You could have a plan in place for when a forseeable pandemic does happen. That would be a start.

You'll be surprised to know that there is one. One small problem is that the Tories forgot to put in action the requirements for stocking up on PPE and certain other actions that came out of the last "readiness" review. Quelle surprise!

It is a myth that they "forgot". They made the deliberate choice to be negligent toward the health and safety of the people.

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:37 pm Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

It is a myth that the NHS is "clogged up".

It is not a myth that you are an IMBECILE.

I wish I had such an understanding of all things as you do.
You are wasted sat looking out of your window

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:37 pm Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

If you want to put your personal.details on line feel free

As for Fat Shaming , Here is Your quote
" We have the highest obesity rates in Europe.  ".

Fat Shaming !!

George wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:19 pm

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:37 pm Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

It is a myth that the NHS is "clogged up".

It is not a myth that you are an IMBECILE.

I wish I had such an understanding of all things as you do.
You are wasted sat looking out of your window

It is a myth that I understand everything. Just tons more than you.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:20 pm

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:37 pm Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

If you want to put your personal.details on line feel free

As for Fat Shaming , Here is Your quote
" We have the highest obesity rates in Europe.  ".

Fat Shaming !!

It’s a statement of fact you buffoon. I don’t need to fat shame. They make a perfectly good fist of it themselves

George wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:27 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:20 pm

George wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:37 pm Why am I fat shaming. It’s a fact. We have been told for years to live a healthier lifestyle, exercise more , eat better , drink / smoke less. Why has it taken a pandemic for people to take notice. These are the group that clog the health system up.
And not sure what my alias has got to do with my opinions. Shall I change it to my real name and add my address and phone number

If you want to put your personal.details on line feel free

As for Fat Shaming , Here is Your quote
" We have the highest obesity rates in Europe.  ".

Fat Shaming !!

It’s a statement of fact you buffoon. I don’t need to fat shame. They make a perfectly good fist of it themselves

Are you saying Fat/Obese people would die more here than theyre.French or Spanish Counterparts
Or are you saying they have more room in France or Spain ?

I dont quite get what YOU are saying .

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:29 pm

George wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:27 pm

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:20 pm

If you want to put your personal.details on line feel free

As for Fat Shaming , Here is Your quote
" We have the highest obesity rates in Europe.  ".

Fat Shaming !!

It’s a statement of fact you buffoon. I don’t need to fat shame. They make a perfectly good fist of it themselves

Are you saying Fat/Obese people would die more here than theyre.French or Spanish Counterparts
Or are you saying they have more room in France or Spain ?

I dont quite get what YOU are saying .

1. We have the highest obesity rates in Europe
2. France is 125% larger than the UK with identical population.

Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:20 am

Proper Partridge.

George wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:24 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:29 pm

George wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:27 pm

It’s a statement of fact you buffoon. I don’t need to fat shame. They make a perfectly good fist of it themselves

Are you saying Fat/Obese people would die more here than theyre.French or Spanish Counterparts
Or are you saying they have more room in France or Spain ?

I dont quite get what YOU are saying .

1. We have the highest obesity rates in Europe
2. France is 125% larger than the UK with identical population.

But Bangladesh is half the size of the uk but has
Twice the population

George wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:24 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:29 pm

George wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:27 pm

It’s a statement of fact you buffoon. I don’t need to fat shame. They make a perfectly good fist of it themselves

Are you saying Fat/Obese people would die more here than theyre.French or Spanish Counterparts
Or are you saying they have more room in France or Spain ?

I dont quite get what YOU are saying .

1. We have the highest obesity rates in Europe
2. France is 125% larger than the UK with identical population.

As much as I like your concept of France and the UK having identical populations it is of course a myth that everyone looks the same.

A year ago today Boris Johnson boasted about visiting a hospital with coronavirus patients and shaking hands with “everybody”.

The U.K. has had the worst possible leader at the worst possible time.

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:52 am

George wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:24 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:29 pm

Are you saying Fat/Obese people would die more here than theyre.French or Spanish Counterparts
Or are you saying they have more room in France or Spain ?

I dont quite get what YOU are saying .

1. We have the highest obesity rates in Europe
2. France is 125% larger than the UK with identical population.

But Bangladesh is half the size of the uk but has
Twice the population

I agree Tuffers , but I don’t want to compare Asian countries with Europe. There is no agreement amongst scientists that they are recording as we do or even releasing the correct figures. We can , however , reasonably expect our near neighbours to be recording as we do making comparisons easier.
I don’t disagree with you or Max that our Government could have done better. I simply don’t think it’s acceptable to place all of the blame at their door until all of the facts are there to see.
I also believe that when those facts are available, we will have performed as well / as badly as the other European countries I have mentioned.