The Unofficial and Independent Leyton Orient Message Board
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Yes all ok now to say that now but back in March 2020, none of the leaders of any of the political parties were calling for borders to be closed, same as at that time no one political party was calling for the mandatory wearing of masks in shops and enclosed spaces. Mask wearing is something that many took a long time to start doing and some still ignoring to do. Yes if we had known what we do now, many things would have been done differently.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:28 amClosing borders is about the oldest pandemic management strategy there is. You have thousands of years of precedent for it. If it wasn't a strategy that was 'oven ready' to use Johnson's favourite phrase, then you have to ask serious questions about the pandemic planning that the government of the last ten years had done.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:19 pmPeople on here are now calling out the government for not shutting down the borders back in March 2020, but I cannot recall any prominent politicians back then calling out for any such measures to be undertaken.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Even if you are being forgiving about the initial f*ck up, it's completely indefensible that it has taken nearly 12 months into the pandemic to implement it. How bad do things need to get before you hold them accountable for how badly they've botched this? It's driving me a little mad to see us with one of the worst death rates, recessions and public spending performances of any country in the world, and still have people defending this government as if they were a bunch of graduates learning on the job.
Just repeat name & number
But Boris said Sir Kier wanted to be scrooge & cancel christmas !Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:10 am Sadiq Khan was enforcing mask wearing on tfl for months before the government made it mandatory. Obviously some around the cabinet were saying in private it was time to close borders early on.
Sid, do you not expect better from our government than one of the worst pandemic responses in the entire world? By whatever metric you want to choose that's what we have experienced in the UK (let's see if vaccine rollout continues to be successful, willing to give credit on that front if warranted). What's more, they don't learn. The situation we are in now, with over 1,500 deaths a day, was completely avoidable. Putting aside whether or not they were fully aware of how the new strain was impacting infections rates, simply looking at a graph of infections in December should have told them a full lockdown was needed.
I know the difference which was my point, and highlighted the potential dangers
That's kind of the point isn't it Sid. I can't recall whether Starmer was calling for borders to be closed or not, but the person in charge, the person who should have made that decision was Boris. His Government failed to make the most obvious and necessary decision at the right time. There were precedents, contemporary and historical, demonstrating how effective this could be, but Boris was/is too weak to make these decisions.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:01 amYes all ok now to say that now but back in March 2020, none of the leaders of any of the political parties were calling for borders to be closed, same as at that time no one political party was calling for the mandatory wearing of masks in shops and enclosed spaces. Mask wearing is something that many took a long time to start doing and some still ignoring to do. Yes if we had known what we do now, many things would have been done differently.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:28 amClosing borders is about the oldest pandemic management strategy there is. You have thousands of years of precedent for it. If it wasn't a strategy that was 'oven ready' to use Johnson's favourite phrase, then you have to ask serious questions about the pandemic planning that the government of the last ten years had done.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:19 pm
People on here are now calling out the government for not shutting down the borders back in March 2020, but I cannot recall any prominent politicians back then calling out for any such measures to be undertaken.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Even if you are being forgiving about the initial f*ck up, it's completely indefensible that it has taken nearly 12 months into the pandemic to implement it. How bad do things need to get before you hold them accountable for how badly they've botched this? It's driving me a little mad to see us with one of the worst death rates, recessions and public spending performances of any country in the world, and still have people defending this government as if they were a bunch of graduates learning on the job.
''Sadiq Khan was enforcing mask wearing on tfl for months before the government made it mandatory.''Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:10 am Sadiq Khan was enforcing mask wearing on tfl for months before the government made it mandatory. Obviously some around the cabinet were saying in private it was time to close borders early on.
Sid, do you not expect better from our government than one of the worst pandemic responses in the entire world? By whatever metric you want to choose that's what we have experienced in the UK (let's see if vaccine rollout continues to be successful, willing to give credit on that front if warranted). What's more, they don't learn. The situation we are in now, with over 1,500 deaths a day, was completely avoidable. Putting aside whether or not they were fully aware of how the new strain was impacting infections rates, simply looking at a graph of infections in December should have told them a full lockdown was needed.
He, He, He is to blame etc !BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:58 amThat's kind of the point isn't it Sid. I can't recall whether Starmer was calling for borders to be closed or not, but the person in charge, the person who should have made that decision was Boris. His Government failed to make the most obvious and necessary decision at the right time. There were precedents, contemporary and historical, demonstrating how effective this could be, but Boris was/is too weak to make these decisions.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:01 amYes all ok now to say that now but back in March 2020, none of the leaders of any of the political parties were calling for borders to be closed, same as at that time no one political party was calling for the mandatory wearing of masks in shops and enclosed spaces. Mask wearing is something that many took a long time to start doing and some still ignoring to do. Yes if we had known what we do now, many things would have been done differently.Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:28 am
Closing borders is about the oldest pandemic management strategy there is. You have thousands of years of precedent for it. If it wasn't a strategy that was 'oven ready' to use Johnson's favourite phrase, then you have to ask serious questions about the pandemic planning that the government of the last ten years had done.
Even if you are being forgiving about the initial f*ck up, it's completely indefensible that it has taken nearly 12 months into the pandemic to implement it. How bad do things need to get before you hold them accountable for how badly they've botched this? It's driving me a little mad to see us with one of the worst death rates, recessions and public spending performances of any country in the world, and still have people defending this government as if they were a bunch of graduates learning on the job.
We're an island. We're much better placed to impose isolation policies than France, or Germany or any other country with multiple land borders but Boris blew it. Even worse was that the government then blew the chance to perform effective tracing of any new cases at a time when, initially, the small numbers of infections made this possible.
He left the door open for the virus, then failed to isolate any new cases as they were discovered. He let the cat out of the bag and the rest is history.
Who is in charge Sid? Whose responsibility is it? Who is meant to be making the decisions (good question....)?Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:09 amHe, He, He is to blame etc !BoniO wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:58 amThat's kind of the point isn't it Sid. I can't recall whether Starmer was calling for borders to be closed or not, but the person in charge, the person who should have made that decision was Boris. His Government failed to make the most obvious and necessary decision at the right time. There were precedents, contemporary and historical, demonstrating how effective this could be, but Boris was/is too weak to make these decisions.Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:01 am
Yes all ok now to say that now but back in March 2020, none of the leaders of any of the political parties were calling for borders to be closed, same as at that time no one political party was calling for the mandatory wearing of masks in shops and enclosed spaces. Mask wearing is something that many took a long time to start doing and some still ignoring to do. Yes if we had known what we do now, many things would have been done differently.
We're an island. We're much better placed to impose isolation policies than France, or Germany or any other country with multiple land borders but Boris blew it. Even worse was that the government then blew the chance to perform effective tracing of any new cases at a time when, initially, the small numbers of infections made this possible.
He left the door open for the virus, then failed to isolate any new cases as they were discovered. He let the cat out of the bag and the rest is history.
I prefer to think that THEY ( opposition parties included ) all failed to push for stronger measures such as closing the UK borders.
Not really
I also agree about management.Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:01 pmTotally agree.Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:32 pmFrom memory. Some ethical owners of businesses paid for hols and health and looked after the workers over 200 years ago.Still wrong wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:41 pm
If it wasn’t for Unions you would have no H&S and no paid holidays.
But carry on dreaming.
It was because some owners did not look after there staff that workers started to get together.
Unfortunately, my experience of unions in representation has been at best poor, sadly. I feel a system similar to Germanys would be much better, with no big bosses with political agenda's only thinking about workers.
The Unions without doubt abused their power in the 70 s.
I was in One of the Print Unions so I can see how one or two power mad idiots can cause a business unnecessary problems.
The problem is British management is appalling, and a lot of business owners are now using cheap labour to drive down conditions.
Germany work less hours and are more productive.
It seems the workforce and the owners are on the same side.
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:43 pm Relentless.
https://goodlawproject.org/update/compu ... r-laptops/
At some point in the future, there HAS to be a truly independent inquiry into everything thats happened during the Covid crisis, from the governments failure to close borders quickly, to all the corrupt deals been done with Tory donors etcRonnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:43 pm Relentless.
https://goodlawproject.org/update/compu ... r-laptops/
Wouldn't be great but they should work to the spec defined by the government, and they certainly shouldn't come "pre-loaded" with a virus.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:12 am "This equates to an average cost of £206 per device. But experts have told us they would expect the basic laptops to cost the taxpayer closer to the region of £100 per device."
Must be poo poo.
He's boarding via a ZX Spectrum 128 now.