Page 125 of 289
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:29 am
by Long slender neck
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:04 pm
by Dunners
"...Drax, the MP for South Dorset since 2010, had taken control of the 250-hectacre Drax Hall Plantation, where his ancestors had a slave workforce from 1640-1836. We also revealed that he is the wealthiest landowner in the House of Commons worth as much as £150m, although he and his family draw a tight veil over their finances."
Irrespective of your party political allegiances, it is beyond me how any of his constituents thought to themselves, "yep, this guy definitely represents me".
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:10 pm
by Stowaway
And this highlights exactly why people like Drax become MP’s and Lords. They obviously don’t need the money, they just want to be able to influence government policy to enable them to be able to continue this kind of system. Nothing to do with improving the lives of their fellow people, they just want to get wealthier.
I’m never sure which kind of tories are the worst - the working class converts, or the landed gentry. I know Dorset has some wealthy areas but it’s largely a rural community. How does anyone who isn’t from Drax’s background think “yup, he’ll have my best interests at heart” come Election Day? The mind boggles.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:49 pm
by Max B Gold
Stowaway wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:10 pm
And this highlights exactly why people like Drax become MP’s and Lords. They obviously don’t need the money, they just want to be able to influence government policy to enable them to be able to continue this kind of system. Nothing to do with improving the lives of their fellow people, they just want to get wealthier.
I’m never sure which kind of tories are the worst - the working class converts, or the landed gentry. I know Dorset has some wealthy areas but it’s largely a rural community. How does anyone who isn’t from Drax’s background think “yup, he’ll have my best interests at heart” come Election Day? The mind boggles.
But do they think like that?
Many are so possessed by fear of The Left coming along and stealing all their worldly possessions and denying them life chances/opportunities that they vote for no change because change is bad.
Sadly they have no possessions worth much and opportunity for all is the myth on which capitalism continues as the failed economic system it clearly is.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:10 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
I get that he's a baddie because he has a lot of money
If you look at his name though it's blatantly obvious that he's a toff: Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax
Quadrupled barreled with a Grosvenor chucked in too, that's name cred Rees-Mogg would even bow to
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:19 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:49 pm
Stowaway wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:10 pm
And this highlights exactly why people like Drax become MP’s and Lords. They obviously don’t need the money, they just want to be able to influence government policy to enable them to be able to continue this kind of system. Nothing to do with improving the lives of their fellow people, they just want to get wealthier.
I’m never sure which kind of tories are the worst - the working class converts, or the landed gentry. I know Dorset has some wealthy areas but it’s largely a rural community. How does anyone who isn’t from Drax’s background think “yup, he’ll have my best interests at heart” come Election Day? The mind boggles.
But do they think like that?
Many are so possessed by fear of The Left coming along and stealing all their worldly possessions and denying them life chances/opportunities that they vote for no change because change is bad.
Sadly they have no possessions worth much and opportunity for all is the myth on which capitalism continues as the failed economic system it clearly is.
They will vote for him because they believe he is better than them. I’m assuming the family line will have a long list of Lords and Knights, with distinguished political and military careers, their offspring attending the finest schools money can buy and marrying into other equally prestigious families.
People bow down to that sort of stuff. They accept people like this are better than them, in exchange they get to believe they are better than the chavs and the work shy and the immigrants.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:24 pm
by Currywurst and Chips
I mean, they voted Labour before Blair left so maybe there's another reason.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:31 pm
by BoniO
Given that his family's wealth can be traced back to a couple of centuries of slavery I'd just take all his money/property off him and his family. I'd be fair about it though and offer him alternative Council Housing as available in his constituency. Bound to be lots available.
Legal objections? Pah, open up a "re-education centre" on the Isle of Sheppey (Twinned with Gulag Archipelago) and send all the lawyers there.
Simple.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:47 pm
by Long slender neck
Cant somebody sue him?
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:04 pm
by Oiram
I would like to see them try. No lawyer would put their own money to do so.
Why blame a man for the actions of family 300 to 400 hundred years prior to his birth?
He has been duly elected thrice.
He has supported numerous charities financially in his life. He is probably a beneficiary of one of more trust funds. Good luck to him.
The woke brigade , especially those in show business and the music industry had better be cautious about criticism of such people who through no
Fault of their own , find themselves a member of a family whose ancestors were linked and benefitted from any form of slavery . They may open a can of worms implicating their own historical ties.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:23 pm
by Max B Gold
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:04 pm
I would like to see them try. No lawyer would put their own money to do so.
Why blame a man for the actions of family 300 to 400 hundred years prior to his birth?
He has been duly elected thrice.
He has supported numerous charities financially in his life. He is probably a beneficiary of one of more trust funds. Good luck to him.
The woke brigade , especially those in show business and the music industry had better be cautious about criticism of such people who through no
Fault of their own , find themselves a member of a family whose ancestors were linked and benefitted from any form of slavery . They may open a can of worms implicating their own historical ties.
Nobody is blaming him for being born into a wealthy family who got rich by exploiting black people.
The argument is against inherited wealth. There should be a reset on the death of a wealthy person with all assets going into a pot to create a public bank to invest in community projects and low interest loans to enterprises to stimulate the economy to create jobs where people earn enough to raise their family/live their lives in security and comfort.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm
by Oiram
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:23 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:04 pm
I would like to see them try. No lawyer would put their own money to do so.
Why blame a man for the actions of family 300 to 400 hundred years prior to his birth?
He has been duly elected thrice.
He has supported numerous charities financially in his life. He is probably a beneficiary of one of more trust funds. Good luck to him.
The woke brigade , especially those in show business and the music industry had better be cautious about criticism of such people who through no
Fault of their own , find themselves a member of a family whose ancestors were linked and benefitted from any form of slavery . They may open a can of worms implicating their own historical ties.
Nobody is blaming him for being born into a wealthy family who got rich by exploiting black people.
The argument is against inherited wealth. There should be a reset on the death of a wealthy person with all assets going into a pot to create a public bank to invest in community projects and low interest loans to enterprises to stimulate the economy to create jobs where people earn enough to raise their family/live their lives in security and comfort.
So you would leave the proceeds of your house, if you have one, into this fund and not to your own family?
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:34 pm
by Max B Gold
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:25 pm
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:23 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:04 pm
I would like to see them try. No lawyer would put their own money to do so.
Why blame a man for the actions of family 300 to 400 hundred years prior to his birth?
He has been duly elected thrice.
He has supported numerous charities financially in his life. He is probably a beneficiary of one of more trust funds. Good luck to him.
The woke brigade , especially those in show business and the music industry had better be cautious about criticism of such people who through no
Fault of their own , find themselves a member of a family whose ancestors were linked and benefitted from any form of slavery . They may open a can of worms implicating their own historical ties.
Nobody is blaming him for being born into a wealthy family who got rich by exploiting black people.
The argument is against inherited wealth. There should be a reset on the death of a wealthy person with all assets going into a pot to create a public bank to invest in community projects and low interest loans to enterprises to stimulate the economy to create jobs where people earn enough to raise their family/live their lives in security and comfort.
So you would leave the proceeds of your house, if you have one, into this fund and not to your own family?
So, can I assume that you too own a house?
Anticipating your objection I deliberately left out a threshold at which the confiscation of wealth would apply. We are of course only really concerned about excess wealth and not personal assets purchased by most people from earnings.
Acknowledging that normal people in London can own houses worth up to £1.5m or so. The threshold can start at say £2m. That should help those who got lucky by merely owning a house in London.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
by Oiram
I have properties that I have owned for years. Having been brought up in a council tower block I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20. Carried on working hard all my life. Nobody has ever given me any money to help me buy anything. I have not had expensive holidays or cars. Are you saying I should hive my money to this fund and not my own children?
Who would set this threshold? On what basis? There are a lot of people like myself who never inherited anything and did without to get ahead in life, build some security for themselves.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:04 pm
I would like to see them try. No lawyer would put their own money to do so.
Why blame a man for the actions of family 300 to 400 hundred years prior to his birth?
He has been duly elected thrice.
He has supported numerous charities financially in his life. He is probably a beneficiary of one of more trust funds. Good luck to him.
The woke brigade , especially those in show business and the music industry had better be cautious about criticism of such people who through no
Fault of their own , find themselves a member of a family whose ancestors were linked and benefitted from any form of slavery . They may open a can of worms implicating their own historical ties.
I’m not blaming him. No one has suggested he stand trial for the crimes committed by his family, that’s ridiculous. But he should obviously have the proceeds of those crimes removed.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:46 pm
by Ronnie Hotdogs
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I have properties that I have owned for years. Having been brought up in a council tower block I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20. Carried on working hard all my life. Nobody has ever given me any money to help me buy anything. I have not had expensive holidays or cars. Are you saying I should hive my money to this fund and not my own children?
Who would set this threshold? On what basis? There are a lot of people like myself who never inherited anything and did without to get ahead in life, build some security for themselves.
How many imaginary children do you have Mario?
Max is of course right - inheritance tax should be at 100%. I’d allow him this threshold nonsense initially if he insists, but would look to remove it altogether ASAP.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:59 pm
by StillSpike
No point - unless you also pass legislation to seize all the so-called "Trusts" that these people set up in Bermuda in order to pass on the wealth from generation to generation. But that shouldn't be impossible, one would hope.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:10 pm
by Oiram
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:46 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I have properties that I have owned for years. Having been brought up in a council tower block I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20. Carried on working hard all my life. Nobody has ever given me any money to help me buy anything. I have not had expensive holidays or cars. Are you saying I should hive my money to this fund and not my own children?
Who would set this threshold? On what basis? There are a lot of people like myself who never inherited anything and did without to get ahead in life, build some security for themselves.
How many imaginary children do you have Mario?
Max is of course right - inheritance tax should be at 100%. I’d allow him this threshold nonsense initially if he insists, but would look to remove it altogether ASAP.
I have thankfully got several children , no imaginary ones.
You saying that people who have never worked a day on their life or squandered their money on drugs and those involved in a life of criminal activity should reap the benefits from this fund?
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:16 pm
by PoliticOs
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20.
Very impressive, Oiram. Good for you.
What did you do for work between the ages of 16 and 20 out of interest?
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:55 pm
by Max B Gold
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:46 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I have properties that I have owned for years. Having been brought up in a council tower block I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20. Carried on working hard all my life. Nobody has ever given me any money to help me buy anything. I have not had expensive holidays or cars. Are you saying I should hive my money to this fund and not my own children?
Who would set this threshold? On what basis? There are a lot of people like myself who never inherited anything and did without to get ahead in life, build some security for themselves.
How many imaginary children do you have Mario?
Max is of course right - inheritance tax should be at 100%. I’d allow him this threshold nonsense initially if he insists, but would look to remove it altogether ASAP.
I was only advocating it to win over floating voters. I dont believe in it obviously. I also left out the guillotine for those who deliberately try and avoid it using clever tax planning for the same reason.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:02 pm
by Oiram
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:16 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20.
Very impressive, Oiram. Good for you.
What did you do for work between the ages of 16 and 20 out of interest?
Most evenings working in restaurants, washing up, cleaning kitchens, cutting vegetables and peeling spuds, washing the floors etc, ‘progressed’ to a bit of waitering meeting interesting people who became lifelong contacts and friends. During the day and weekends age 16 , pretended to be 18 to get casual work at GBN and Radio Veneers both near Brisbane Road. Worked in food factories, Furniture Factories in and off Lea Bridge Road. Removals and business transfers. Carried more full filing cabinets that I want to remember. Worked in Bakeries, shops and all sorts. Worked since age 12 in various shops, building sites and gardening jobs. My joints are suffering now through shear hard physical work. Saved hard, was quite easy as I was always at work somewhere.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:07 pm
by PoliticOs
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:02 pm
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:16 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20.
Very impressive, Oiram. Good for you.
What did you do for work between the ages of 16 and 20 out of interest?
Most evenings working in restaurants, washing up, cleaning kitchens, cutting vegetables and peeling spuds, washing the floors etc, ‘progressed’ to a bit of waitering meeting interesting people who became lifelong contacts and friends. During the day and weekends age 16 , pretended to be 18 to get casual work at GBN and Radio Veneers both near Brisbane Road. Worked in food factories, Furniture Factories in and off Lea Bridge Road. Removals and business transfers. Carried more full filing cabinets that I want to remember. Worked in Bakeries, shops and all sorts. Worked since age 12 in various shops, building sites and gardening jobs. My joints are suffering now through shear hard physical work. Saved hard, was quite easy as I was always at work somewhere.
Fantastic, well played. Would be great to get to a stage again where 20 year olds could buy houses in London all from washing up, cleaning, bakery work and so on. I fear they have zero chance again. Seems like a world away.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:07 pm
by Dunners
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:55 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:46 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:44 pm
I have properties that I have owned for years. Having been brought up in a council tower block I left home at 16 without a Penny to my name. Worked hard, saved everything I could, bought a house when I was 20. Carried on working hard all my life. Nobody has ever given me any money to help me buy anything. I have not had expensive holidays or cars. Are you saying I should hive my money to this fund and not my own children?
Who would set this threshold? On what basis? There are a lot of people like myself who never inherited anything and did without to get ahead in life, build some security for themselves.
How many imaginary children do you have Mario?
Max is of course right - inheritance tax should be at 100%. I’d allow him this threshold nonsense initially if he insists, but would look to remove it altogether ASAP.
I was only advocating it to win over floating voters. I dont believe in it obviously. I also left out the guillotine for those who deliberately try and avoid it using clever tax planning for the same reason.
Don't try and worm your way out of it now. Ronnie has clearly called you out as a Tory facist. You'll be one of the first up against the wall.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:10 pm
by Dunners
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:07 pm
Oiram wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:02 pm
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:16 pm
Very impressive, Oiram. Good for you.
What did you do for work between the ages of 16 and 20 out of interest?
Most evenings working in restaurants, washing up, cleaning kitchens, cutting vegetables and peeling spuds, washing the floors etc, ‘progressed’ to a bit of waitering meeting interesting people who became lifelong contacts and friends. During the day and weekends age 16 , pretended to be 18 to get casual work at GBN and Radio Veneers both near Brisbane Road. Worked in food factories, Furniture Factories in and off Lea Bridge Road. Removals and business transfers. Carried more full filing cabinets that I want to remember. Worked in Bakeries, shops and all sorts. Worked since age 12 in various shops, building sites and gardening jobs. My joints are suffering now through shear hard physical work. Saved hard, was quite easy as I was always at work somewhere.
Fantastic, well played. Would be great to get to a stage again where 20 year olds could buy houses in London all from washing up, cleaning, bakery work and so on. I fear they have zero chance again. Seems like a world away.
Today's 20 year old are clearly not scrubbing those dishes hard enough. Perhaps if they spent more time doing the washing up instead of eating out at fancy Nandos they'd own some houses by now.
Re: Tory Watch
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:13 pm
by PoliticOs
I can guess the people that will like that comment. Maybe kids today aren't in a more difficult socioeconomic environment than their parents*, maybe they just eat too much avocado?
*'I used to earn £6 per week in my day!'