Independent Leyton Orient Forum

slacker wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:43 am

faldO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:22 am

Thor wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:48 pm Finally they admit that not one teacher has caught coronavirus from a pupil anywhere in the world. What did I say months ago? Oh yes I was right. You can line up in a row and tell me "yep thor was right"

Do you have a source for that? How could "they" possibly know that given that transmission can sometimes be from asymptomatic carriers?

This is an example of a misleading Daily Mail headline claiming that, then saying something different in the text. The conclusion?Don't buy or trust the Daily Mail.

Good source of celebs in their swimwear though.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:01 am

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:39 pm

It does. As we see in all sorts of situations.

Difficult but not impossible.

Maybe that is why Corbyn was brutalised
by the mail & others
Because he chose to stand against blairs backing to the invasion. Or it could be a hundred reasons why right hates left & vice versa

He was brutalised by his own incompetence and that of his Momentum clan.

Eh ?

High street chains like Costa Coffee and Sainsbury's will not penalise customers who do not wear face coverings in their stores when laws come into force.

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/23/h ... ing-rules/

Should action be taken against companies not adhering?

Or is this due to even more abject confusion from the Government?

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:04 pm High street chains like Costa Coffee and Sainsbury's will not penalise customers who do not wear face coverings in their stores when laws come into force.

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/23/h ... ing-rules/

Should action be taken against companies not adhering?

Or is this due to even more abject confusion from the Government?

Yes and yes.

Its interesting that the gatherings of 500,000 people down at Bournemouth beach or the tens of thousands of protesters does not seem to have caused any spikes in cases and or deaths. Is that just luck?

In Spain the cases are in places where people come together like Madrid or Barcelona where the transport converges, maybe that will be an issue here?

However, all the doomslayers were wrong.

Wouldn't surprise me if there was at least a mini spike within the next couple of weeks.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:34 pm Its interesting that the gatherings of 500,000 people down at Bournemouth beach or the tens of thousands of protesters does not seem to have caused any spikes in cases and or deaths. Is that just luck?

In Spain the cases are in places where people come together like Madrid or Barcelona where the transport converges, maybe that will be an issue here?

However, all the doomslayers were wrong.

Was it 500k?

One explanation is that many of the people were not from the area so if infected could have taken the virus back home.

People were outside so that probably minimised the risk. I thought the hysterical reaction at the time was ridiculous.

No spike from the BLM protests either.

Coronavirus quarantine for travellers from Spain is blunt tool, says Labour

Shadow home secretary says UK should instead introduce ‘test, trace and isolate in a firm way at the border’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... from-spain

Couldn't agree more. My friend who travelled from Cairo (over two weeks ago) was never checked up on, to confirm whether he was self-isolating.

No doubt, the hundreds of thousands of other people who return to the UK from holidays abroad, won't get checked out either.

This Tory Government are a circus of utterly clueless . Lockdowns; Face masks; self-isolation.......they are literally now making this BS up as they go along.

Who do you expect to check up on people?

He would probably send in the SAS and do a snatch squad raid on him if he's not at home or wherever they should be.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:26 am Who do you expect to check up on people?

Don't ask me, I suggest that you raise this particular question with the Tory Government. Afterall, they are the ones making it up as they go along.

It's the UK Gov website that states:
In England, if you do not self-isolate, you can be fined £1,000. If you do not provide an accurate contact detail declaration – or do not update your contact detail form in the limited circumstances where you need to move from the accommodation where you’re self-isolating to another place to continue self-isolating – you can be fined up to £3,200.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -to-the-uk

How would you suggest that they'll get to impose these fines then?

Or do you readily now agree that basically, they are just talking absolute bllox?

If you get the chance, let me know how they reply.

Many thanks.

I don't expect many fines to be imposed. I can't imagine any western country checking on people as it would be a huge job and it's not really in our culture.

Thor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:34 pm Its interesting that the gatherings of 500,000 people down at Bournemouth beach or the tens of thousands of protesters does not seem to have caused any spikes in cases and or deaths. Is that just luck?

In Spain the cases are in places where people come together like Madrid or Barcelona where the transport converges, maybe that will be an issue here?

However, all the doomslayers were wrong.

To be fair, most people only had an issue with the BLM protest gatherings. They didn't seem to be as vocal about the beach and VE celebrations etc. I'm not sure why, I suspect it's because they were so concerned for the health of the protestors given the way Covid appears to affect BAME individuals more severely?

But regardless, yeah, it's a strange one. I'm no scientific expert like Hancock or Cummings, but it has to be that the risk of infection outdoors is minimal, or that we've already achieved herd immunity?

Bill gates is not to be trusted, in my opinion. I’ve just watched the video that Lewis Hamilton posted up and he is lying, his body language his eye movement at key points all say he is lying, again in my opinion.

Decide for yourselves.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... -post.html

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:25 pm Bill gates is not to be trusted, in my opinion. I’ve just watched the video that Lewis Hamilton posted up and he is lying, his body language his eye movement at key points all say he is lying, again in my opinion.

Decide for yourselves.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... -post.html

Do you think that Bill Gates is one of The Cartel?

Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:25 pm Bill gates is not to be trusted, in my opinion. I’ve just watched the video that Lewis Hamilton posted up and he is lying, his body language his eye movement at key points all say he is lying, again in my opinion.

Decide for yourselves.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... -post.html

Just did the whole thing. Didn’t really see or hear anything that suggested to me he was lying. Most of what he said was believable, side effects, just read the average splurge that accompany all drugs. There are risks to all. What’s the issue here?

Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

Thought/hoped it would be here until end of summer, so not much longer than now, before fading away. The fact it is so easy to pass on means really life won't return to normal until there is an effective vaccine.

(appreciate I'm saying nothing new with that last sentence).

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

When Johnson said in his partial lockdown speech
There will be death.& life will change , i thought maybe 10,000 might die
When it passed 10,000 reasoably quickly i was beginning to think 2 years or
the discovery of a vaccine.
We may get lucky with a year & a bit of herd immunity before normal is normal again

R Rate looks to be above 1 in south east now.

https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

Did I expect it to go on this long?

Maybe if Johnson could have been bothered turning up for COBRA meetings and treated Coronavirus as a serious threat last January, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

If our Government had acted quicker with lockdown, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we actually imposed a proper lockdown; and not allowed an unelected 'advisor' to basically stick up two fingers to the British public; well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we closed our borders, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we not pushed the elderly from hospitals into care homes without being tested first, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

If we had an effective Track & Trace System (instead of a 'World Beating' one that doesn't actually exist!) well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had the Government imposed mask-wearing at the cessation of Lockdown rather than weeks later, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

I could go on but no doubt you get my drift.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

It will probably be around for some time to come, at least well into next year. The main thing is how it is managed, keep the death rate down, don't overwhelm health services, protect the vulnerable as far as possible, avoid repeating the mistakes that have been made.

Even if no vaccine is available, ways to treat it in hospital have got better since the start, with drugs like dexamethasone, understanding when and when not to use ventilators, etc, so the case fatality rate may go down.

In the end it might just have to be seen like flu and we may need to accept that each year 1000s of people are going to die from it. It's more contagious than flu but not vastly more.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:03 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

Did I expect it to go on this long?

Maybe if Johnson could have been bothered turning up for COBRA meetings and treated Coronavirus as a serious threat last January, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

If our Government had acted quicker with lockdown, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we actually imposed a proper lockdown; and not allowed an unelected 'advisor' to basically stick up two fingers to the British public; well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we closed our borders, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we not pushed the elderly from hospitals into care homes without being tested first, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

If we had an effective Track & Trace System (instead of a 'World Beating' one that doesn't actually exist!) well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had the Government imposed mask-wearing at the cessation of Lockdown rather than weeks later, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

I could go on but no doubt you get my drift.

NO's, I reckon I'm about as close to anti-this Gov as you are, but you do yourself a disservice here. Would it be here still if we had the greatest leader in the world, had lockdown earlier, closed the borders, dealt with care properly, tracked and traced from the off and continued and got mask wearing in early doors?

Of course it would still be here. Could and should it have been miles better handled and less death and destruction? Of course too.

I know you said maybe, but we don't help matters by playing unrealistic.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

Yep. It was clear, even at an early stage, that certain advisers and scientists were beginning to reshape their timescale references. Phrases such as "many months, if not longer..." started to replace more hopeful estimates. This is a common communication technique used when you need to warm an audience up for a change of expectation.

Also, when it became clear that Covid-19 wasn't being suppressed by colder weather conditions, it meant that it was likely to be an ongoing issue and not as seasonal as other infections, such as flu. We'll be lucky if this is over by 2021. There's a fair few scientists saying it will continue into 2022, and possibly even 2023.

Also, what's happening in Spain isn't a 'second wave'. It's still the first wave, just bouncing back a bit after suppression tactics are withdrawn. This first wave could go on for a long time yet. And this will cause problems for countries like Taiwan and New Zealand. Their strategy only works if the pandemic is relatively short-lived. If it's prolonged over multiple seasons, like what Covid-19 is shaping up to be, then that strategy may yet backfire on them.

The good news is that, despite the way things have been reported, the death rate (and the rate of which the infected suffer longer-term problems) is mercifully low. So far, your risk of dying from this is much lower than many other causes which most of us do not give a second's thought to. So take precautions, wash your hands, wear your mask, observe safe distancing and try and get on with enjoying your life as much as possible.

PoliticOs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:50 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:03 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:04 pm Did anyone expect it to go on this long? With cases seemingly spiking around the world, I can't see an end to it.

Did I expect it to go on this long?

Maybe if Johnson could have been bothered turning up for COBRA meetings and treated Coronavirus as a serious threat last January, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

If our Government had acted quicker with lockdown, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we actually imposed a proper lockdown; and not allowed an unelected 'advisor' to basically stick up two fingers to the British public; well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we closed our borders, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had we not pushed the elderly from hospitals into care homes without being tested first, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

If we had an effective Track & Trace System (instead of a 'World Beating' one that doesn't actually exist!) well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

Had the Government imposed mask-wearing at the cessation of Lockdown rather than weeks later, well maybe, it wouldn't have done.

I could go on but no doubt you get my drift.

NO's, I reckon I'm about as close to anti-this Gov as you are, but you do yourself a disservice here. Would it be here still if we had the greatest leader in the world, had lockdown earlier, closed the borders, dealt with care properly, tracked and traced from the off and continued and got mask wearing in early doors?

Of course it would still be here. Could and should it have been miles better handled and less death and destruction? Of course too.

I know you said maybe, but we don't help matters by playing unrealistic.

Unrealistic......really?

Would things be different if we had the greatest leader in the World? Let's look at one and find out.

Two words in reply:
Jacinda Ardern