Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:59 am Anyone who dies who had tested positive at any point, is recorded as having died with covid. Which I thought was common knowledge anyway.

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:54 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:59 am Anyone who dies who had tested positive at any point, is recorded as having died with covid. Which I thought was common knowledge anyway.

I hadn't seen this specific info until it was reported on Thursday, certainly not in the way it was described.

You can have covid, fully recover, and then subsequently months later could die from something completely unrelated (eg an accident) and it would be recorded as a covid death. It's the way PHE colate their data and how it's described in the paper about it: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-on ... l-anomaly/

Whether it impacts the overall total of covid-related deaths in any meaningful way remains to be seen, it could be just a handful of people or more than that.

It's why some say it's pointless trying to build up an accurate total and doing country comparisons until all the figures are available and the is some kind of normalization/standardization around how deaths are reported.

Disoriented wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:56 am

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:54 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:59 am Anyone who dies who had tested positive at any point, is recorded as having died with covid. Which I thought was common knowledge anyway.

I hadn't seen this specific info until it was reported on Thursday, certainly not in the way it was described.

You can have covid, fully recover, and then subsequently months later could die from something completely unrelated (eg an accident) and it would be recorded as a covid death. It's the way PHE colate their data and how it's described in the paper about it: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-on ... l-anomaly/

Whether it impacts the overall total of covid-related deaths in any meaningful way remains to be seen, it could be just a handful of people or more than that.

It's why some say it's pointless trying to build up an accurate total and doing country comparisons until all the figures are available and the is some kind of normalization/standardization around how deaths are reported.

Spin at its absolute worst.

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:18 am How many people do you think tested positive for Covid back in March/April/May, recovered from it, then died from something totally unrelatable in the following months?

Clowns.

Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:46 pm

RedO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:18 am How many people do you think tested positive for Covid back in March/April/May, recovered from it, then died from something totally unrelatable in the following months?

Clowns.

Couple of thousand?

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:42 am You can call it spin all you like but it's a paper published by two scientists who - from my reading of it at least - are highlighting what they see as a potential anomaly in the reporting statistics by PHE around covid deaths.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:13 pm This government undoubtedly made a number of mistakes in the handling of the pandemic.

However, nobody has any idea as to whether a different government would have handled it differently, better or worse.

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:13 pm This government undoubtedly made a number of mistakes in the handling of the pandemic.

However, nobody has any idea as to whether a different government would have handled it differently, better or worse.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:09 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:42 am You can call it spin all you like but it's a paper published by two scientists who - from my reading of it at least - are highlighting what they see as a potential anomaly in the reporting statistics by PHE around covid deaths.

Was this scientific 'spin' also then?

Boris Johnson on Wednesday insisted it was "premature" to say the U.K. had made mistakes in its response to the crisis, after a top adviser said the country’s death toll could have been halved if it had gone into lockdown just one week earlier.
https://www.politico.eu/article/scienti ... -covid-19/

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:53 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:09 pm

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:42 am You can call it spin all you like but it's a paper published by two scientists who - from my reading of it at least - are highlighting what they see as a potential anomaly in the reporting statistics by PHE around covid deaths.

Was this scientific 'spin' also then?

Boris Johnson on Wednesday insisted it was "premature" to say the U.K. had made mistakes in its response to the crisis, after a top adviser said the country’s death toll could have been halved if it had gone into lockdown just one week earlier.
https://www.politico.eu/article/scienti ... -covid-19/

Your rantings are becoming more and more predictable by the day. You take what I post - which was just a link to a scientific paper which anyone is free to read and make up their own mind about, and my take on it - and go off at a tangent with something completely unrelated.

The "top advisor" referenced in the link you provided is none other than Professor Neil Ferguson, the lockdown-breaker who couldn't keep his trousers on, resigned in shame, and whose models and predictions are often so far wide of the mark - both during this pandemic and in the past - that many people find it hard to take them seriously any more (except perhaps the government and his own paymasters).

At least if you're going to attempt to discuss science find someone to quote who has some credibility.

faldO wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:53 pm The "top advisor" referenced in the link you provided is none other than Professor Neil Ferguson, the lockdown-breaker who couldn't keep his trousers on, resigned in shame, and whose models and predictions are often so far wide of the mark - both during this pandemic and in the past - that many people find it hard to take them seriously any more (except perhaps the government and his own paymasters).

At least if you're going to attempt to discuss science find someone to quote who has some credibility.

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:09 am South Korea (pop 51 million): 289 deaths
Thailand (pop 70 million): 58 deaths
Singapore (pop 6 million): 26 deaths
Taiwan (population 24 million): 7 deaths
Vietnam (pop 95 million) : 0 deaths.

UK (pop 68 million): 44,630 deaths officially, 65,000+ according to ONS research on the excess death rate.

Yet we still have morons suggesting that the Tory Govt. have done a good job.

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:00 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:09 am South Korea (pop 51 million): 289 deaths
Thailand (pop 70 million): 58 deaths
Singapore (pop 6 million): 26 deaths
Taiwan (population 24 million): 7 deaths
Vietnam (pop 95 million) : 0 deaths.

UK (pop 68 million): 44,630 deaths officially, 65,000+ according to ONS research on the excess death rate.

Yet we still have morons suggesting that the Tory Govt. have done a good job.

Knowing people in some of those countries mentioned, also Philippines, you will find that far more draconian measures were used in the above Countries mentioned to stop the spread of Covid19. As in China, extreme lock-downs including curfews, compulsory use of social distancing and masks, measures that could not be enforced in Uk and even if attempted to be imposed on the population would not be observed by the majority. In areas of Cebu City in the Philippines there is a 8pm to 5am curfew at present, only one registered person per household allowed out of the house to go out for shopping on just one allotted day of the week, compulsory use of face masks outside the home, refusal to do may will lead to arrest. Many police and military out in these countries to monitor the people and I am told military in tanks and armoured cars to be seen in Cebu. OMG, try that in many Cities in UK and see what would happen, same goes for USA. Our people are just not used to be under such strict regimes of the type that you get out in many Far Eastern Countries, if you do not do as you are told, you are in for it. Even though the UK public have been giving the instructions about social distancing and the use of wearing masks, so many ( especially younger people ) have completely ignored the message. I have even been abused and sworn at on 2 separate occasions because when out shopping, i was wearing thin surgeon type gloves,mask and a face visor, I just ignored those 2 idiots and laughed inside myself at their ignorance and stupidity.
''Here are the points to remember for the ECQ in Cebu City:
A. Mandatory Stay-at-home order and curfew. All Cebu City residents are mandated to stay at home, especially before during the curfew from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. daily. Senior citizens and minors are not allowed to go outside except for emergencies.
Quarantine passes must be brought by residents buying essential goods for their families. Mandatory wearing of masks. Masks should be worn in public places and the law enforcers are tasked to ensure that this is strictly followed.
Individuals not wearing masks may be apprehended.

Read more: https://cebudailynews.inquirer.net/3189 ... z6SYwuzX9S
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

tuffers#1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:19 pm

Sid Bishop wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:00 pm

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:09 am South Korea (pop 51 million): 289 deaths
Thailand (pop 70 million): 58 deaths
Singapore (pop 6 million): 26 deaths
Taiwan (population 24 million): 7 deaths
Vietnam (pop 95 million) : 0 deaths.

UK (pop 68 million): 44,630 deaths officially, 65,000+ according to ONS research on the excess death rate.

Yet we still have morons suggesting that the Tory Govt. have done a good job.

Knowing people in some of those countries mentioned, also Philippines, you will find that far more draconian measures were used in the above Countries mentioned to stop the spread of Covid19. As in China, extreme lock-downs including curfews, compulsory use of social distancing and masks, measures that could not be enforced in Uk and even if attempted to be imposed on the population would not be observed by the majority. In areas of Cebu City in the Philippines there is a 8pm to 5am curfew at present, only one registered person per household allowed out of the house to go out for shopping on just one allotted day of the week, compulsory use of face masks outside the home, refusal to do may will lead to arrest. Many police and military out in these countries to monitor the people and I am told military in tanks and armoured cars to be seen in Cebu. OMG, try that in many Cities in UK and see what would happen, same goes for USA. Our people are just not used to be under such strict regimes of the type that you get out in many Far Eastern Countries, if you do not do as you are told, you are in for it. Even though the UK public have been giving the instructions about social distancing and the use of wearing masks, so many ( especially younger people ) have completely ignored the message. I have even been abused and sworn at on 2 separate occasions because when out shopping, i was wearing thin surgeon type gloves,mask and a face visor, I just ignored those 2 idiots and laughed inside myself at their ignorance and stupidity.
''Here are the points to remember for the ECQ in Cebu City:
A. Mandatory Stay-at-home order and curfew. All Cebu City residents are mandated to stay at home, especially before during the curfew from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. daily. Senior citizens and minors are not allowed to go outside except for emergencies.
Quarantine passes must be brought by residents buying essential goods for their families. Mandatory wearing of masks. Masks should be worn in public places and the law enforcers are tasked to ensure that this is strictly followed.
Individuals not wearing masks may be apprehended.

Read more: https://cebudailynews.inquirer.net/3189 ... z6SYwuzX9S
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

So no illegal raves for kids to go to
No civil servants going to castles for eye tests etc ?

NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:45 pm

Ornchurch wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:13 pm This government undoubtedly made a number of mistakes in the handling of the pandemic.

However, nobody has any idea as to whether a different government would have handled it differently, better or worse.

On that basis, should we absolve Tony Blair for the Iraq War then?