Independent Leyton Orient Forum

Frogger wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:48 pm Too many people on this thread acting like the two sides fighting, point their fingers and blaming each other.

Both sides are guilty, both sides committing awful acts to each other of the last 70 years. I hope the fighting and senseless killing ends soon and peace or at the very least a cease fire can be agreed very soon with hostages being returned to their families.

Only one side is guilty of stealing land from the indigenous population and imposing an apartheid state.

The Israeli govt is far right and every democrat should oppose it.

Must be awful for Israeli citizens to feel like, at any moment, a group of people could come and kidnap them, or worse. Must be awful living with that fear every day….

I fear that Hamas have gone well over the top and will reap terrible dividends.
This is Israel’s 9/11 moment and they won’t hold back.

ChorizO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:36 am I fear that Hamas have gone well over the top and will reap terrible dividends.
This is Israel’s 9/11 moment and they won’t hold back.

Agree.

And just like the US, they will make things worse for themselves for the next 25 years without bothering trying to solve the root cause

Rich Tea Wellin wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:48 am

ChorizO wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:36 am I fear that Hamas have gone well over the top and will reap terrible dividends.
This is Israel’s 9/11 moment and they won’t hold back.

Agree.

And just like the US, they will make things worse for themselves for the next 25 years without bothering trying to solve the root cause

‘Dividends?’

Max B Gold wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:29 am

Frogger wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:48 pm Too many people on this thread acting like the two sides fighting, point their fingers and blaming each other.

Both sides are guilty, both sides committing awful acts to each other of the last 70 years. I hope the fighting and senseless killing ends soon and peace or at the very least a cease fire can be agreed very soon with hostages being returned to their families.

Only one side is guilty of stealing land from the indigenous population and imposing an apartheid state.

The Israeli govt is far right and every democrat should oppose it.

How stunningly ignorant. If you want to go down that route blame the British, American and French governments for giving the land BACK to the Israeli people.
Let’s blame the every country that ever invaded/took land and let’s see how that progresses.

Both sides are at fault with many atrocities committed by both sides. Admit that and then look to move forward rather than only blaming one side.

How the f*** can both sides be at fault?
Israel took over Palestine, either killed or threw out the Palestinians, and continue to this day, to steal the remaining Palestinian lands. Israel has had more UN censures than every other nation in the world put together. Israel is breaking international law.
Israel is a nuclear power.
How can both sides be at fault ffs?

This time Israel needs to teach Hamas a terrible lesson they will never forget, should obviously have done it before. To allow them to gain from this would simply encourage other terrorists around the world.

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:30 am This time Israel needs to teach Hamas a terrible lesson they will never forget, should obviously have done it before. To allow them to gain from this would simply encourage other terrorists around the world.

Ah, them Hamad lads eh? They need a good telling don’t they? That’ll sort it - just what’s needed. More violence and bloodshed.

roffeys money wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:30 am This time Israel needs to teach Hamas a terrible lesson they will never forget, should obviously have done it before. To allow them to gain from this would simply encourage other terrorists around the world.

more violence doesn’t solve anything. We need a ceasefire and peace talks now. Biden needs to keep out of it. Should send his deputy, the lady. He will only get the names of the people and countries wrong and wind the lot of them up.

I feel for the 4 million people who live in Gaza.
They will die not Hamas.
The next stage will be the West Bank if Isreal attack them who will we support.
I also feel for the Israelis who are in the middle of this.

Bluecap wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:12 am I feel for the 4 million people who live in Gaza.
They will die not Hamas.
The next stage will be the West Bank if Isreal attack them who will we support.
I also feel for the Israelis who are in the middle of this.

Agree. Thoughts with the civilians who are, and will be, affected on both sides.

Both sides are living in an intolerable situation.
It’s hard not to sympathise with the Palestinian cause especially when Isreal continues building illegal settlements.
Israel craves security above anything else. I don’t think this escalation and the retribution Isreal will bring to Gaza Strip will teach any lessons though. Not saying they don’t have the right to react to what has happened but it will probably undermine their security still further over the long run.

Iran is behind this. It wants to provoke a response from the Israelis that will undermine the normalisation process with the Saudis. It also wants to inflame tensions across the Islamic world.

Domestic politics will make it difficult for Israel to not escalate and fall into the trap. Neither Iran nor Hamas give a flying f*ck about ordinary Palestinians.

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:34 am Iran is behind this. It wants to provoke a response from the Israelis that will undermine the normalisation process with the Saudis. It also wants to inflame tensions across the Islamic world.

Domestic politics will make it difficult for Israel to not escalate and fall into the trap. Neither Iran nor Hamas give a flying f*ck about ordinary Palestinians.

Amazing that a League One ,Leyton Orient fan has such insight into World Affairs.

If we ever get to The Premiere League you could be Prime Minister. Spread your theories on LBC?

Hamas only formed in 1984, thirty four years after the occupation.

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:41 am How the f*** can both sides be at fault?
Israel took over Palestine, either killed or threw out the Palestinians, and continue to this day, to steal the remaining Palestinian lands. Israel has had more UN censures than every other nation in the world put together. Israel is breaking international law.
Israel is a nuclear power.
How can both sides be at fault ffs?

Some people should just stick to talking about Orient rather than getting involved in topics they don’t really understand or just have a very blinkered view. Read the facts, learn the history.

Frogger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:35 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:41 am How the f*** can both sides be at fault?
Israel took over Palestine, either killed or threw out the Palestinians, and continue to this day, to steal the remaining Palestinian lands. Israel has had more UN censures than every other nation in the world put together. Israel is breaking international law.
Israel is a nuclear power.
How can both sides be at fault ffs?

Some people should just stick to talking about Orient rather than getting involved in topics they don’t really understand or just have a very blinkered view. Read the facts, learn the history.

Tell us the history then

Loin Cloth Lenny wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:08 pm

Dunners wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:34 am Iran is behind this. It wants to provoke a response from the Israelis that will undermine the normalisation process with the Saudis. It also wants to inflame tensions across the Islamic world.

Domestic politics will make it difficult for Israel to not escalate and fall into the trap. Neither Iran nor Hamas give a flying f*ck about ordinary Palestinians.

Amazing that a League One ,Leyton Orient fan has such insight into World Affairs.

If we ever get to The Premiere League you could be Prime Minister. Spread your theories on LBC?

I mean, quite a lot of media analysis has pointed the finger at Iranian influence in this so, without speaking for him, I don't think Dunnem is claiming this to be some unique insight no-one else has come up with.

It’s kind of like saying “no insight here please, I only want to read takes that sound like they’re written by someone who knows about nothing other than leyton orient”

Frogger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:35 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:41 am How the f*** can both sides be at fault?
Israel took over Palestine, either killed or threw out the Palestinians, and continue to this day, to steal the remaining Palestinian lands. Israel has had more UN censures than every other nation in the world put together. Israel is breaking international law.
Israel is a nuclear power.
How can both sides be at fault ffs?

Some people should just stick to talking about Orient rather than getting involved in topics they don’t really understand or just have a very blinkered view. Read the facts, learn the history.

Cheeky sod. I know the history better than most. Ive studied middle eastern history for the last 40 years

"Studied"

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:51 pm

Frogger wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:35 pm

ComeOnYouOs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:41 am How the f*** can both sides be at fault?
Israel took over Palestine, either killed or threw out the Palestinians, and continue to this day, to steal the remaining Palestinian lands. Israel has had more UN censures than every other nation in the world put together. Israel is breaking international law.
Israel is a nuclear power.
How can both sides be at fault ffs?

Some people should just stick to talking about Orient rather than getting involved in topics they don’t really understand or just have a very blinkered view. Read the facts, learn the history.

Cheeky sod. I know the history better than most. Ive studied middle eastern history for the last 40 years

Sorry I didn’t mean to offend, all I am saying is there are two sides. I am pro Israel, but I do appreciate that they are far from innocent, however the Arab world have not been exactly the best of neighbours either. To blame is to just carry on the same rhetoric. Move forward to find a solution.

I, for one, am disappointed that this MB has not found a solution to the problem. I bet they've sussed it out on the other board!

We've not found a solution so far. I reckon that if we all put in the effort, we should get there in another 25 pages or so.